Eating fuel pumps

[turbodon]

I can provide pictures and other details of surge pots if needed.

Forum rules dictate aminimum of 10 post before I can post a link. 20 post to post a picture. 20 posts to send an email to a forum user.

Stupid rules but they are what they are.

PM me with you email if interested.

Always remember:

If you make your customers knowledgeable, they will be happy customers.

This is off the Aeromotive web site Tech Help:

Sumps vs. Pick-up Tubes and EFI

EFI and modern engine technology have combined to create the ultimate street driven racecar. With ordinary combinations producing from 300 HP to as much as 500 HP, the stock EFI fuel system has proven flexible. Hard core engine combinations exceed this mark with the exotic making 1000+ HP, on “the street”. Applications above 500 HP universally require a complete fuel system makeover, from fuel rails to fuel pump. A key part of any fuel system upgrade is the fuel container itself. The debate is whether to modify the stock tank or install a racing fuel cell.

There are several benefits for retaining the stock fuel tank in a high horsepower streetcar. It has a larger capacity than most fuel cells, already has a mounting location and hardware, has provisions for filling from outside the vehicle, has a cap that both vents and seals and is already on/in the vehicle.

The drawbacks to stock fuel tank retention are more numerous but less obvious. The stock pick-up/pump assembly is restrictive, requiring complete replacement with a fabricated assembly. When using a stock tank with fabricated pickup, unless the fuel level in the tank is ¾ full or higher, the internal well, which the stock pump draws from, is far too small and poorly supplied with fuel from the rest of the tank. Faced with the demand of a large pump, drawing through a fabricated pickup, it has no chance of refilling fast enough to support WOT full engine load. Under low demand, cruise type conditions, the large volume of fuel delivered to the rails is unused and returned. The same fuel, picking up heat from the pump and the rails, is constantly recycled to and from this well, rapidly increasing fuel temperature. Common problems associated with stock fuel tanks and fabricated pickups are pump cavitation, vapor lock, varying fuel pressure, exaggerated pump wear and lean conditions during both low and high loads. Note: Unlike a carbureted engine, any loss of fuel supply at the in-tank- pickup will immediately result in a loss of fuel volume and pressure at the EFI injector resulting in lean conditions and engine damage.

For those who prefer a stock style fuel tank, Aeromotive has performed extensive research into what would make an acceptable compromise. The findings above clearly ruled out the use of any kind of fabricated pickup. Instead, the company designed a fuel sump and baffle assembly, professionally installing it on various stock style tanks. The primary problem of heat soak is minimized, as is the restriction of fuel flow through the sump box and to the actual pick-up point. However, this is still a compromise at best, requiring fuel levels be maintained above ¼ for normal low load driving, above ½ to ¾ for drag racing and above ¾ for road racing. In all serious racing applications the correct fuel cell is highly recommended. All Aeromotive fuel systems are available with or without the modified stock tank, allowing the best choice of fuel container without compromising on the rest of the system. There is
a better way to feed the beast and Aeromotive has the modern fuel system components to do it now!

[Pontiac Pete]

I apologize to you Turbodon. I was referring the the genius turbonova who chimes in with smart assed remarks in my posts. I do appreciate your knowledge of the Aeromotive fuel pump and thank you for your help. Humbly, Pontiac Pete

[FAST Tech Maxwell]

Turbonova actually IS a genius when it comes to fuel injection.
He is one of the best FAST authorized Tuners/Installers in the country.
In fact, he is so good, that he teaches our FAST XFI 101 class.

He has helped out many people on this forum, and many, many more on a daily basis not on the internet. He is NOT just a keyboard jockey. He is the real deal.

Also, he posts on the forum to help people in his own free time. He isn't paid to do it like I am.

[Pontiac Pete]

TurboNova
Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lake Havasu City AZ and Olympia, WA
Posts: 271

Sounds like you need more throttle screw.
__________________
Brian Macy
EFI University Instructor
www.efi101.com

I knew somebody would get pissed if i slammed turbonova, does this sound like a educated and only reply??? Pontiac Pete

[FAST Tech Maxwell]

Not upset or trying to start an argument here.

In your first post under "Warm start idle surging?", you said "If I give it some air it cleans up and idles fine at 700RPM."

Here is the link: Warm start idle surging?

With the information given and that key phrase, a logical recommendation would be for you to crank in the throttle stop screw a little more to "give it some air". The throttle setting procedure is also a step that a lot of customers seem to skip for some reason.

TurboNova's reply was short and to the point.

Later you elaborated more on the issue, and a different picture of the situation emerged. It really helped when you posted your IAC position numbers, because we didn't have that information before.

I think you may have misinterpreted TurboNova's response to your post.

[David_H]

I have found that its real easy to miss understand people when typing. Its so easy to come off like a complete "A hole" just because the way you type something... So I always try to re read things.... I'm so afraid of eating another pump I'm giving up on the hole external pump Idea.... It looks like I'm going to miss this years (my 1st year) mini nats in northern California. I only got about 200 250 miles out of the pump and its 800 mile round trip.... I haven't told the wife yet but she is going to kill me for spending all this money on the car to get it road ready to miss the most important event of the year.......

[TurboNova]

I apologize to you Turbodon. I was referring the the genius turbonova who chimes in with smart assed remarks in my posts. I do appreciate your knowledge of the Aeromotive fuel pump and thank you for your help. Humbly, Pontiac Pete

Sorry if you think I came across as a smart ass but I am far from it. I do post and help many people here and and other boards like Matt said for free in my spare time. Sometimes my posts are short and sweet usually because my answer is from my Iphone while driving or busy doing something else.

Most of the posts here sometimes leave out all the details to start with and later get into what we need to actually answer the questions.

I did not mean in any way to come across as a smart ass, if you knew me or met me or called me on the phone you would find I am not.

BTW I have had several people call me from this board on weekends, off hours and business hours asking for tech support also. I help where and when I can.

As for the pumps, I was pointing out that all pumps... fuel and water, car and industrial have a "pump head" that is the amount of height they can suck. I am using the same EZ EFI pump, pulling from my stock 66 Nova gas tank, the pump is mounted on the frame above the top of the stock tank. I have had zero problems this way. It returns fuel into the filler neck back into the stock tank. Is it the best way? no way, a sump in the bottom of the tank with a larger feed line than pressure side of the pump is a better way to go for sure... does it work.. yes, has for a year now.

When setting up pump systems for customers I always make the supply or feed line to the pump one or more sizes larger than the feed to the engine side. This way you always have more supply than the pump can pump forward.

[TurboNova]

I apologize to you Turbodon. I was referring the the genius turbonova who chimes in with smart assed remarks in my posts. I do appreciate your knowledge of the Aeromotive fuel pump and thank you for your help. Humbly, Pontiac Pete

I have found that its real easy to miss understand people when typing. Its so easy to come off like a complete "A hole" just because the way you type something... So I always try to re read things.... I'm so afraid of eating another pump I'm giving up on the hole external pump Idea.... It looks like I'm going to miss this years (my 1st year) mini nats in northern California. I only got about 200 250 miles out of the pump and its 800 mile round trip.... I haven't told the wife yet but she is going to kill me for spending all this money on the car to get it road ready to miss the most important event of the year.......

Where are you at David? I was thinking about going to that show too.

[David_H]

Where are you at David? I was thinking about going to that show too.

I'm in So.Cal. a few of us guys are driving out there on Friday the 3rd and coming back on Monday the 6th But I'm worried now that my pump wont handle the 800 mile round trip... I just installed a new fast pump today to get the car home. I have my pump mounted level with the bottom of my tank. I have never had any signs of it starving for fuel so I was shocked when the pump locked.. I banged on the pump and it started up long enough to move the car to a safe place... I will be sending the pump back to FAST tomorrow... How many miles have you put on your nova with that pump?

[TurboNova]

I'm in So.Cal. a few of us guys are driving out there on Friday the 3rd and coming back on Monday the 6th But I'm worried now that my pump wont handle the 800 mile round trip... I just installed a new fast pump today to get the car home. I have my pump mounted level with the bottom of my tank. I have never had any signs of it starving for fuel so I was shocked when the pump locked.. I banged on the pump and it started up long enough to move the car to a safe place... I will be sending the pump back to FAST tomorrow... How many miles have you put on your nova with that pump?

I would say that I have more than 3000 miles on my pump. How are you picking up fuel from the tank?
It was my daily driver until mid this year when I pulled out the engine to seal up some oil leaks.