Welcome to CPGNation.com! Log in or Sign up to interact with the CPGNation community.

Best CAMSHAFT BBC FAST EZ-EFI 2.0??

Discussion in 'FAST Support Forum' started by Cronies74, May 31, 2016.

  1. Cronies74

    Cronies74 New Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2016
    Doing a ground up resto on my '71 Chevelle, 15k chassis is done. Now we're moving on to building up a new GMPP crate 502 base (500 base HP) for this street car. Aiming for 600HP (500 to wheels) after all is said and done. Will be running the FAST EZ EFI 2.0 with dual sync dizzy and ignition. Ultra Pro Magnum Rocker Arms (7/16" Stud/1.7" Ratio) #1620-16, Edelbrock RPM performer Dual Plane "Air Gap" #75611, Art Carr 200-4R (2500-2600 stall) Trans, Currie track-9 ford 9" w 3.55 gears, Lemons headers 2" tubes & 3" exhaust, HydroTech HydroBoost, C1 pulleys & PS pump, alum GM heads will be milled and ported.

    Some of the research I've done shows a lot of guys using marine cams with 112-114 LSA. Some said that even the XR276HR w110* LSA didn't play nice with EFI. The Comp guys have recommended XR282HR which is probably too aggressive for me so one step down would be the XR276HR.

    The 01-451-8 XM284HR is close to the Extreme Energy (XE) cams below and seems to be what other guys say work best for EFI. Even the Lunati EFI and Edelbrock cams have 114 LSA.

    I'm not an engine builder but am fairly mechanical everywhere else and with all of the research I've done I'm now more confused than ever. I wanted the EFI for reliability and don't want to have to tune carbs. This isn't a race car but still want it to haul butt with an aggressive sound, and have some fun doing it. That's what it's all about in the end I guess.

    Since EFI needs at least 10" of idle vacuum I need to make sure we get the correct cam here.
    Anyone out there have experience with this type of setup or know which cam would work best for this FAST EFI application?

    01-451-8 - XM284HR
    RPM Range- 2200-5800
    Valve timing: .006
    Lobe Separation: 112 deg
    Intake centerline: 110 deg
    Duration: 284 Intake / 290 Exhaust
    Duration @ .050" lift: 230 Intake / 236 Exhaust
    Valve lift: 0.547 Intake / 0.547 Exhaust
    Lobe lift: .323 Intake / .323 Exhaust
    Overlap: 63 degrees
    IVO 32* BTDC
    IVC 72* ABDC
    EVO 79* BBDC
    EVC 31* ATDC

    01-418-8 XR282HR (est.12-14 inch vacuum)
    RPM Range- 2200-5800
    Valve timing: .006
    Lobe Separation: 110 deg
    Intake centerline: 106 deg
    Duration: 282 Intake / 288 Exhaust
    Duration @ .050" lift: 230 Intake / 236 Exhaust
    Valve lift: 0.51 Intake / 0.51 Exhaust
    Lobe lift: .301 Intake / .307 Exhaust
    Overlap: 65 degrees
    IVO 35* BTDC
    IVC 67* ABDC
    EVO 78* BBDC
    EVC 30* ATDC

    01-416-8 XR276HR (vacuum ??)
    RPM Range- 1900-5600
    Valve timing: .006
    Lobe Separation: 110 deg
    Intake centerline: 106 deg
    Duration: 276 Intake / 282 Exhaust
    Duration @ .050" lift: 224 Intake / 230 Exhaust
    Valve lift: 0.51 Intake / 0.51 Exhaust
    Lobe lift: .301 Intake / .301 Exhaust
    Overlap: 59 degrees
    IVO 32* BTDC
    IVC 64* ABDC
    EVO 75* BBDC
    EVC 27* ATDC
     
  2. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    I run the XR282HR in a 406 small block. It ran alright and made 490 horsepower with an "AIR GAP" style dual plane intake for a year with the EZ EFI 2.0 Throttle Body system (in an '85 Trans Am) - but, the engine now makes over 500 horsepower with a retune after installing a Victor Jr. single plane intake. It also now idles fine at 700. It wouldn't run correctly under 950 with the dual plane. This is with a turbo 400 transmission and 10" TCI 2500 stall converter. The EZ EFI 2.0 is a bad idea for use with a manual transmission.

    That said, the Extreme Energy (XR) grinds build a lot of power but have lower LSAs which works against the vacuum needs of the EZ EFI 2.0 system - and dual plane intakes have been found to cause uneven cylinder fueling with the EZ EFI 2.0 throttle body systems.

    The best hydraulic roller cam solution for the EZ EFI 2.0 Throttle Body system is the COMP Extreme Energy FI series, or a custom grind. These have a LSA at 113, 109 centerline, and more lobe lift - improving use with fuel injection over the XR series. The XM284HR will be a close match.
     
    Cronies74 likes this.
  3. Cronies74

    Cronies74 New Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2016
    Thanks for that great information. Just confirms my claims that EFI needs 112-114 LSA. But I don't see an XFI cam for BBC. Maybe I just have to get one made or just go with that XM284HR. I just ordered that RPM performer dual plane intake on Friday too. I'm thinking of changing to the Victor single plane now since you had better succes with it. The 200-4R is a auto with O/D so nothing to worry about there. Thx again
     
  4. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Definitely change the Performer dual plane to the Victor Jr. single plane for use with the EZ EFI 2.0 Throttle Body system. You will have fewer headaches using it. Performance improves everywhere using the single plane - even bottom end and mid range torque and horsepower are improved using it with the TBI system - not to mention tuning the 2.0 system will be much easier with it. It allows a much greater initial timing number for better bottom end and mid range performance - plus it fuels the cylinders evenly. Here's a link, to my personal experiences, that should be of help - http://www.cpgnation.com/forum/thre...with-dual-plane-intake-vs-single-plane.25871/

    :) Yes, I noticed you are using the Art Carr 200 4R auto. I just wanted to press the point for others to not use this FAST system with a manual transmission - they will be disappointed due to the constant learning feature. I also use a 200 4R, prepped by Fairbanks, in another vehicle I have.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
  5. Cronies74

    Cronies74 New Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2016
    I was 1 number off on the Comp cam part number (01-418-8 XR282HR).
    The cam below has 114 LSA.
    This should work well with the EFI.

    I'm also replacing the dual plane with the Edelbrock Vic Jr. 2904 single plane. Comp/FAST recommended the same thing after talking to them about it today. They agreed that there would be some extra manual tuning required and idle issues below 850 with a dual plane intake.

    So thanks for the heads up!!

    01-419-8 XR282HR (12-14 inch vacuum)
    RPM Range- 2000-6000
    Valve timing: .006
    Lobe Separation: 114 deg
    Intake centerline: 112 deg
    Duration: 282 Intake / 288 Exhaust
    Duration @ .050" lift: 230 Intake / 236 Exhaust
    Valve lift: 0.51 Intake / 0.51 Exhaust
    Lobe lift: .301 Intake / .307 Exhaust
    Overlap: 5 degrees
    IVO 3* BTDC
    IVC 47* ABDC
    EVO 54* BBDC
    EVC 2* ATDC
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
  6. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    That "computer friendly" COMP XR cam should work very well - so long as your crate big block is the later model roller block. The other cams you mentioned were "retro fit" for the older blocks. Since you want 600 horsepower, I would recommend a bit more duration - around .240-.248 @ .050 lift should get you there.
     
    Cronies74 likes this.
  7. Cronies74

    Cronies74 New Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2016
    Just wanted to say thanks for your help AA with sharing your experiences with this similar configuration. Funny think about the intake- just for curiosity sake I called Edelbrock to see they recommend for FAST EFI 2.0 and the still pointed me towards the RPM dual plane. Hung up with them and called JEGS and ordered the 2904 Vic Jr. and set up a return for the RPM dual. Comp/FAST echo'd your points on idle and manual tuning issues if dual plane is present. Got everything ordered now so if everything goes well we should have the engine in the chassis by end of July. Can't wait, but still have to get the body painted and transplanted over to the new chassis. Fun stuff.
     
  8. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    You're welcome. I'm surprised anyone at Edelbrock would recommend a dual plane with TBI when there is so much evidence showing such a combo isn't optimal, or even workable in some cases. Even muscle car magazines have documented the problems they found, on a dyno, until they installed a single plane intake. Sales must be down on the Edelbrock dual plane. Edelbrock even incorporates single plane intakes with their own TBI setups and, when the FAST intake is out of stock for some fuel injection kits, it is the Victor style Edelbrock intake they ship in the FAST kit.
     
  9. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Your project sounds like a really nice one - I'll look forward to your posting some pictures when it is completed.:)
     
  10. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
  11. stangbuilder

    stangbuilder New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2016
    call mike jones cams if you have cyd head flow numbers he can custom grind you exactly what you need .... I can attest his cams work he knows his business .I had like 5 different cams in my motor never was happy put his cam in night and day.. I am running xfi deal with thottle body. Sorry comp cams web site
     
  12. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    His grinds might work fine for you. But, you have the more expensive XFI 2.0 system - which is also more forgiving to most cam grinds. A custom grind also costs much more than a COMP "off the shelf" grind tailored for use with fuel injection.
     
  13. Cronies74

    Cronies74 New Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2016
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sorry, I've been away a while. I've been waiting on that darn single plane Vic Jr Intake that we changed to instead of the dual plane RPM (4 week Edlebrock backorder), and also had to exchange one of the damaged heads.
    Anyway, I was working with Comp Cams tech guys on this exact thing since they sell the Fast EFI too and figured they would know the best Camshaft for this application, right?? Well, we were on the right track with ordering a cam for EFI at least.
    Comp reccomended the 01-419-8 XR282HR-14 along with the 911 springs, which I ordered.
    After talking to my cylinder head machinist (who is doing a complete overhaul- valve job, open up bowls, port match intake, etc. and this guy know his stuff!!) he said the 911 springs were total crap and were actually weaker than what was already in the ZZ502 GMPP alum heads (I watched him test both).
    He wants to use 26055 BeeHive Springs.
    I'm seriously considering (99.9% sure) swapping the cam to the next one up 01-422-8- XR288HR-14 (one of your links provided- Thx) instead of the milder XR282 and bcuz I'm using a beef'd up Art Carr 200-4R with a 2600 stall.
    I'm losing faith in Comp a little now.
    They are just reading off the book instead of proven results I'm guessing.
    The factory ZZ502 cam (GMPP# 12366543) is 110 LSA, 224/234 dur@.050, 0.527/ 0.544 lift, that's all I could find on that one so not sure how it compares entirely.
    The 502 crate engine is already 500hp out of the box, and we were trying to get her up to around 600 to give us 500 to the street. That was the thought anyway.

    Thx, Brian
     
  14. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    I think the 01-422-8- XR288HR-14 would be the best all around cam for your crate motor and drivetrain. I expect it will get you over 500 horsepower - with a conservative guess of somewhere in the 550-575 range. The other cam I listed would put you at, or just over, 600 horsepower. But, it would require a lot of changes - stall converter, engine compression, rear gear, fuel system, etc. You may need to run your idle around 800-950 for good vacuum. But, that's not a bad idle with a 2600 stall speed on a big block. This cam takes the more substantial 930 springs. I believe your machinist will agree this cam would be better. Cam selection can be a little like fishing - you need the bigger bait and right tackle to catch the big fish. :)

    That XR282HR-15 really isn't much of a noticeable step up from your crate motor cam.
    It will allow you to drop your idle down from 800.

    A lot of people will suggest a smaller cam as it will be more easily tuned to have better street manners. Thing is, once you're already at 500 horsepower in a street motor, it really doesn't matter that much unless you go too big. I use the maximum duration figures to get a better match with the engine compression, as that makes best power and performance. This XR288HR cam is very good with around 9.5-10:1 compression.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2016
  15. Cronies74

    Cronies74 New Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2016
    Thx, AA you have been a great help!! I'm for sure going with the 01-422-8- XR288HR-14 cam.. I'm hoping with all of the upgrades we are doing - FAST EFI/ignition, Vic Jr. intake, pro mag lifters, head porting, and opened exhaust 2" long tubes + 3" tails it will get us close to our goal of 600 and end up with a decent asphalt chewing hotrod.
    Re: the springs -
    Since we are replacing the weaker 911s with the 26055 BeeHive Springs, I need Comp to tell me which Steel Retainers to use - 703, 705, or 1756 (needs to fit 11/32" diameter valve with square groove keeper), and if I need locks for Beehive Retainers. Waiting for answer still. May just have to call in again. What's your opinion on the spring assem?
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2016
  16. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    I haven't used the beehive spring and, some have said they broke in their engine. Never had any trouble with the 930 springs. With the Pro Mag lifters, be sure to use a dial indicator for setting the very light hot preload called for. They are designed to prevent lifter pump up.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2016
  17. Cronies74

    Cronies74 New Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2016
    Just confirming that when going to the 01-422-8- XR288HR-14 I should go with the 930 springs, correct? I've gotten things mixed up here as we started this up again. The springs specs and changes my machinist went off of and which I was referring to only applied to that XR282 cam. Forgot to consider the spring upgrade now that I've up' the cam to the XR288. Would the beehive equivilant of the 930 springs just be overkill for this? Or just go with the 930's and call it a day?
     
  18. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    You might should ask that question in the http://www.cpgnation.com/forum/forums/comp-cams-support-forum.233/ and get an answer from Maxwell. He may also recommend the 930, but he'll need to know how you plan to use the crate motor with this cam in your Chevelle. I'm just not familiar with the Beehive springs and prefer a dual spring.
     
  19. Cronies74

    Cronies74 New Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2016
    This is what I ordered today-
    Camshaft- 01-422-8- XR288HR-14
    Beehive Springs - 26120
    Retainers- 1795-16
    Locks - 6116-16
    Think we are back on track again. :)
    Thx for your input AA.
     
  20. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Let us know how everything turns out. Best of luck with the build. There aren't enough big block Chevelles running - great car. :)
     

Share This Page