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Dual Sync initial setup

Discussion in 'FAST Support Forum' started by kpanza, Jun 6, 2017.

  1. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Any spacer needs to be an open spacer and not a four hole with the 2.0 TBI. The intake also needs to be a single plane model. A four holes spacer or dual plane intake will only cause problems. Even an open spacer will only give a small amount of added performance with a single plane intake. If you don't have something like a Victor Jr. or the Professional Products 52033 Hurricane Plus, you'll need a new intake.:( The 52033 won't need any spacer as it is the height of a Super Vic.

    The good thing about the Professional Products 52033 model is it offers a great match to stock port heads with a Fel Pro 1205 intake gasket. Like the Victor Jr., you will need to clearance the valve covers for the added intake material in the port areas. The Professional Products 52033 also runs about 2/3 rds. the price of a Victor Jr. and performs just as well.:) Check the Amazon price.
     
  2. Pfingstl

    Pfingstl Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2016
    Location:
    Denmark
    All this talk about degrees made me a bit confused. The Dual Sync is phased with 30
    Degrees ?

    I have installed my Dual Sync at 20 degrees advanced. Timing light knob turned to 20 and it shows 0 on the Damper when using the test light.

    This is correct ? 20 degrees Andvance ?


    Regarding manifold and spacer. I have a 4 hole spacer on my original low rise spread bore dual plane big block manifold - 71' Corvette.

    It runs great and with no hesitation, but I can't wait to install the single plane Torker II i just ordered !!!
     
  3. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Jens, you have your settings correct, but you are confusing phasing degrees with advance degrees. The Dual Sync does phase on 30 degrees with the EZ EFI 2.0 - just like the MSD phasing rotor is set to 30 degrees when a MSD Pro Billet distributor is used.

    Your Dual Sync is actually looking at 0 degrees when its module triggers - the ECU uses that to set 20 initial degrees of spark - which you can then vary in the slope menu to what you need for the initial and total with slope. Zero degrees is what the ECU needs to see when the magnetic module sends its signal. The rotor itself is at 30 degrees at this point. The whole idea of phasing is having the rotor at an optimum spark transfer position in relation to the cap pins. This equals a shorter rotor to cap pin gap at RPM for a stronger spark at the plug, and less arcing inside the cap.

    That 4-hole spacer isn't helping anything. It should be an open spacer. The only reason you aren't having problems with the dual plane is how mild your current camshaft profile is. If you had more cam duration, fuel reversion would be a lot greater in your intake.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
  4. Pfingstl

    Pfingstl Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2016
    Location:
    Denmark
    AA, thanks for the info.

    Plan is to install the Torker II when arrives and do a reset. At some point the engine will be restored and get at EFI rollercam. Still have to figure out what to do with regarding regarding other parts and heads. Would also like to ad a 4L6xE to lower rpm and so on.
     
  5. kpanza

    kpanza Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Location:
    Huntington Beach, CA
    AA,

    I had read numerous posts regarding the single plane/dual plane intakes with FAST kits. It seems so hit and miss with guys having the dual plane work, and some not? So you're saying that the cam profile is biggest factor in being able to get by with the dual plane? Is my Comp Cams 12-242-2 not going to play nice with the FAST and my Performer RPM dual plane? Man, just when I thought I would finally get to install the system this weekend! You say that the Prof Products 52033 and Vic Jr intakes are the ticket, but you also mentioned they worked well with the stock ports...will they work well with my Trick Flow heads also? Or should I look at one of the Trick Flow single plane intakes??
     
  6. kpanza

    kpanza Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Location:
    Huntington Beach, CA
    I'm also a little concerned with driveability in my intended use? Looking at the 52033 and Super Vic on Summit just now, they say operating range is like 3,500-8000rpm?? I want low end torque for rock crawling, off roading, etc...the K5 weighs 6500lbs or so for trail duty...not wanting a high rpm screamer? Are there different options, or am I overthinking this?
     
  7. kpanza

    kpanza Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Location:
    Huntington Beach, CA
    I guess a little more info on my vehicle would help? It's a '73 K5 Blazer 4x4 with the 383 stroker. It is geared with 5.38s in the rear 14bolt and front Dana 60, Bowtie Overdrives built 700R4. Runs on 42" tires (may drop down to a 40" soon, but will always be at least 40-42" tires). Heavy truck!! Double Beadlock wheels, full roll cage, lots of extra parts on board, tire carriers, heavy duty bumpers, boxed frame with added crossmembers...you name it. My last '87 K5 (which I took most of the drivetrain out of to swap into the '73), it weighed 6,820lbs on the truck scales at my friend's truck yard! And that was not even loaded down for an off road trip! I have tried to "lighten" the '73 where I can, but it's still gonna be a heavy pig. Engine specs off hand (built by previous owner of engine): Eagle stroker crank, Trick Flow 195 Kenny Duttweiler aluminum heads, Performer RPM intake, comp caps 12-242-2 XE cam, came with a Demon Road Jr 725 carb (long gone!), etc, etc. Has Thorley Tri Y headers, dual 2.5" exhaust with crossover. I'd have to check on the stall converter, don't recall offhand.
     
  8. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Those ratings are for carburetors, and carbs are entirely different in fueling requirements. Using TBI, those single plane intakes will actually make more low end torque than any rated for more low end torque. The large open plenum is key to TBI best operation. You'll have more low-end torque than ever before using one of them.

    I have a Hurricane Plus 52033 in an '81 GMC pickup with a 355 small block making just over 400 horsepower with FAST EZ EFI 2.0. It has plenty of low end torque - enough I could have probably used a lower stall speed than the 2500 I installed with its TCI StreetFighter transmission. The truck has air conditioning, power brakes, and power steering - not to mention keyless remote starting and entry with power door locks and windows. The truck is nicer than when I bought it new, and will easily ignite its tires.

    http://www.cpgnation.com/forum/threads/ez-efi-2-0-throttle-body-system-vehicle-2-an-81-gmc.26110/
     
  9. kpanza

    kpanza Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Location:
    Huntington Beach, CA
    Ok, so I guess I'll be ordering an intake. When I looked up the 52033 intake on Summit, it was UNAVAILABLE? Also, are the Prof Prods stuff made in America? Or is it imported stuff for lower price point? I like supporting Edelbrock for the made in USA factor. Ok, so if I go Edelbrock, which part # is it? Just a Vic Jr for SBC 350? I noticed you used the Super Vic on your 81 GMC...any reason to get one or the other for my truck? I have the aluminum Trick Flow valve covers, you said I would need to modify them for clearance with the intake?

    Also, I've seen you mention a LOT of different spark plugs...the motor currently has the AC Delco 41-629 resistor plugs...seems like you like NGK the best...which plug range are you suggesting with the alum heads and other stuff I mentioned? Also, I intend on running 91 octane pump gas (California), but can add octane booster at fill ups if needed?
     
  10. kpanza

    kpanza Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Location:
    Huntington Beach, CA
    I just got off the phone with Trick Flow, and they recommended the Vic Jr #2975, with a Fel Pro #1206 gasket. Does that sound right to you AA? He also said that the recommended plug for my heads and the 9.7 compression was the Autolite 3923 (1 range colder than stock?)
     
  11. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    I upgraded the first engine in my '81 with the Vic. I also upgraded to Trick Flow heads on that engine. I swapped in an iron head engine with the new transmission - and used the satin finish Hurricane Plus on it just to save some cash. It is China made, but had surprisingly good machining and looks good - and the performance either matches or slightly exceeds a Super Vic according to many people. Amazon is where you will find it. I personally know Vic from years back, but that doesn't mean I will pay exorbitantly more for basically the same quality. He doesn't either.:) I saved $100 using the China made and was actually surprised by the high level of quality it had. I only lightly touched up two or three port corners for a perfect OEM cylinder head port match out of the box - and there is plenty of material for port matching to larger port heads. Vic's CNC port matching is outrageously expensive - like $200 more for a Vic Jr.

    With your aluminum heads, you probably have raised valve cover rails. Due to this, machining of the valve cover shouldn't be needed. Factory cast heads don't have raised valve cover rails.

    The plugs - yes, I tried more than a few heat ranges. This was due to a local fuel supplier selling bad fuel. I didn't catch that until three of my daily drivers began acting up after they had fill-ups on the same day at the same station. I no longer do business there.

    One range colder than the stock heat range plug should be all you need depending on fuel and compression. The EZ EFI Wizard will set you rich. Timing must be set right first - as the Wizard will set it high - way high for most pump fuels. Then you can lean idle and cruise, using the plugs to see what is needed.
     
  12. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    You'll use a Fel Pro 1205 with the #2975 as it comes. The larger Fel Pro 1206 is used if you port match the intake to the heads.

    That plug compares to NGK BKR6E. NGK BKR5E is stock.

    At 9.7:1, you're going to need to start with your total timing at 26-28 degrees, and watch the heat line on the side electrode. Start with all-in slope at 4000. Initial will be 20-22 degrees with your cam. That cam may not make enough vacuum for good operation of the EZ EFI 2.0. EZ systems need at least 10 inches of vacuum at idle in gear.
     
  13. kpanza

    kpanza Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Location:
    Huntington Beach, CA
    Ok, thanks AA! Yes, the TFS heads have raised valve cover rails...so that shouldn't be an issue. I will go with the Vic Jr 2975...I don't have money to burn, but prefer Edelbrock gets my money. I'll look up which NGK crosses with the Autolite 3923
     
  14. kpanza

    kpanza Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Location:
    Huntington Beach, CA
    Hmm, I remember you saying a while back that the cam should be ok? Well, I guess I will see...*Banned**Banned**Banned**Banned*, I should've just saved up for an LQ4 6.0 LS motor! This is starting to drive me nuts...
     
  15. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    The cam should work with no more duration than it has. But adjusting the ECU for it may be a chore if it doesn't easily make 10 inches or greater of vacuum at idle due to the 110 lobe separation. Idle should be 750.

    I have a XE282HR in a 406 small block with 110 lobe separation and slightly higher duration. The engine makes just over 500 horsepower. It would have been a lot easier to tune if the cam lobe separation had been 112-113. As it is, that engine makes idle vacuum dead on the threshold of what the EZ systems require. most of my tuning of that engine had to be done at 950 until I could get the engine to idle at 700-750. Just think of what all I went through with getting gas with unreliable octane numbers and other problems. The second build was no problem - as I knew, ahead of time, exactly what was needed. I've also been building high performance engines since the 60's, but had always used Holley carbs I tuned specifically for each build - some of those small blocks making almost 700 horsepower N/A with experimental cams.

    http://www.cpgnation.com/forum/thre...with-dual-plane-intake-vs-single-plane.25871/
     
  16. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Everyone, including the people at COMP and FAST have learned a lot concerning EZ EFI 1.0 and 2.0 systems since 2015. They used to advertise these systems work with any intake. They'll tell you quick to use a single plane intake today. They will work with a dual plane - they just don't work well without issues if a single plane isn't used, and also when a cam doesn't make enough vacuum or used with a manual transmission.

    I tuned my first EZ EFI 2.0 using a dual plane intake, and it did run well with 490 horsepower. But, the first time I pulled all the plugs after a year, I could see the tune was bad from cylinder to cylinder. The MAP sensor had also gone out. From there, I installed a single plane intake and then saw the engine accept a much better tune that would allow a low 700 idle. Had I known about these problems early on, my TA would be running the Sportsman system - it has no vacuum threshold limitation.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
  17. kpanza

    kpanza Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Location:
    Huntington Beach, CA
    I hear ya AA, I know it's hard to make stuff like this work when there are millions of variables. I got the old intake off last night, gonna try to finish cleaning up the heads tonight, and I got a big box from Summit with the new Vic Jr and some other stuff (colder plugs, new gaskets, etc).

    Since I always like to have spare parts in my 4x4, is the FAST 307053 Sensor Kit the one I would need to have spares for the critical sensors the FAST EZ 2.0 uses? Just doing some pre-planning. haha Got to get this thing in and running first.
     
  18. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    I wouldn't worry with that kit. You would still need the MAP adapter wiring. The EZ EFI 2.0 does go into a "limp home" mode in the event of a problem. Once you have everything running right, the system is very solid.

    Since I changed my intake, the fuel reversion that got the previous MAP, no longer seems to be a problem. If it is, I have a spare old stle GM MAP and FAST wiring connector adapter I can re-install. You might want to keep a spare O2 sensor for your 4 wheel just because of brush and the location of the O2..

    I didn't mention it before, but my horsepower came up just above 500 after I installed the Vic Jr to the 406 roller motor. My 355 iron head makes just over 400, but also has either a 113 or 114 lobe separation, and has Rhoads variable lifters. It also has a bit more duration and lift than your cam (very old Crane hydraulic grind). It goes from mild at idle to wild as the RPMs increase due to the lifters.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2017
  19. kpanza

    kpanza Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2015
    Location:
    Huntington Beach, CA
    Baby was sick, high fever and all, so no progress! Tonight is softball league...hopefully get some time tomorrow night. Another question for you - when I removed the old intake gaskets (think they were Fel Pro #1256?), I noticed that in the center (between the two center bolts for the intake) of the gasket was a metallic looking square, which I'm assuming was to block off what I believe is the EGR openings from the heads? The 1205 gaskets I got do not have this metallic part, just same gasket material as the rest of the gasket? Does that matter? I also noticed that the heads have water ports on both ends of them, but both the Performer RPM and the Vic Jr only have water port openings on the front end of the intake?

    I know I need to use a good amount of Ultra Black on the china walls, how much to use around the water ports? Sorry if newbie questions, but that's me!
     
  20. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    1205 is a universal gasket as some intakes have both front and rear water passages like the Super Vic, some Brodix, Dart, and Hurricane Plus manifolds - even some dual plane intakes have them.

    The 1256 is for EGR use. You won't be running EGR, so it makes no difference regardless if the heads have the passage.

    Use some copper coat gasket spray on both sides of your 1205 gaskets. If they ever need removal, it will make the job a lot easier.

    You only need to use the silicone on the lifter valley end rails and a little extra at the gasket corners there.. A 3/8 inch bead is usually more than enough if the intake sits high at the valley end rails - just be sure it doesn't protrude into the distributor area. Be sure to use silicone that is O2 sensor safe.

    I don't use the silicone on the water ports. The copper spray will get tacky after a few minutes and will hold the gasket in place when you apply the gasket to the head. Silicone in the water port areas is a fix when the metal is pitted there.
     

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