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Dual Sync install with MSD on 427W - How to Fire MSD?

Discussion in 'FAST Support Forum' started by DucatiThunder, Oct 20, 2017.

  1. DucatiThunder

    DucatiThunder New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2016
    So I finally converted over to the Fast Dual Sync dizzy on my Inglese 8 stack 427W. I cant get it to start. Distributor was set installed at 0 Deg TDC on #1 cylinder as per the instructions. I rotated it to get the cam and crank lights on #1. I had to adjust it slightly to allow for the cap to clearance the fuel rail. I was originally running a mech advance dizzy so I had the harness "white' points hooked up to the MSD and used the purple/green magnetic pick up on the MSD to the dizzy.

    I have hooked up the plug to the dizzy to the XFI harness. I crank and its like Im not getting any spark. What am I missing?

    I have a "brown" Points Output that I think need to be connected to the MSD to fire. What am I supposed to do with these two wires, 1) "White" Points and 2) "Brown" Points Output.

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
  2. DucatiThunder

    DucatiThunder New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2016
    Also, I am not using a crank sensor. When I installed the new harness I had it running and driving with the older mech distributor before I added the new dual sync dizzy.
     
  3. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
  4. DucatiThunder

    DucatiThunder New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2016
    AA,

    yep its in the 0 position set from the factory. I pulled it again and tried installing it at 30 deg BTDC with the same out come. Im pretty sure I have it installed correctly but due to the fact it isnt working well ... has me concerned.

    Other then plugging in the distributor does anything else need to be jumped or looped? I have those 2 other wires that I have hooked up but still no change.
     
  5. Fastnofast

    Fastnofast Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2017
    The white points output wire on the FAST XFI harness will go directly to the white points input wire on the MSD box, that is the only wire that connects the two units
    Did you do that ?
     
  6. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    For the MSD wires, the FAST points output connects to the MSD points input. The purple/green MSD crank trigger wires are no longer used
     
  7. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    50 degree module setting using 50 degree mark on the crankshaft. Software must also be set.
     
  8. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Troll, go troll somewhere else - preferably back in France with your EZ EFI toy.
     
  9. DucatiThunder

    DucatiThunder New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2016
    ???
     
  10. DucatiThunder

    DucatiThunder New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2016
    Im running the Sportsman 2.0. I was under the assumption that the 50 deg timing wasnt used and only used on the full XFI unit?

    Correct. I have the MSD "white" wire hooked to the "brown" points output on the XFI harness. The purple/green crank trigger wires have been unplugged.
     
  11. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Sportsman makes a difference. I was getting you set up for XFI sequential. Sportsman is bank to bank.

    The module should be in the "0" position with the 30 degree crank setting used. Your wiring sounds good. Check the C-COM software settings. You may be still set to "crank trigger" - that was used with the previous distributor.
     
  12. DucatiThunder

    DucatiThunder New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2016
    So humbling moment of the day .... I dropped my MSD box which is mounted under my cobra dash to have better access to it and the wiring. The "neg" MSD wire is grounded to the frame member under the dash by the mounting bolts. I didnt think to ground it back to the frame when I had it sitting on the passenger side floor. I grounded it via with a alligator clip and wire ... cranked it over and it started right up.

    Im going to verify the timing with a light. I just want to verify I am comprehending the initial set up of the distributor. It seems from what I have searched on the forum that everyone gets this wrong initially.

    I need turn over the engine to 0deg TDC on #1 compression stroke. Drop in distributor and set up the lights.

    or

    Turn engine over to 0deg TDC on #1 compression stroke then turn the crank back to 30deg BTDC and drop in the distributor. Set up lights. This is how it is currently set up and it started/idled @ 900-1000 RPM.

    Sorry if this is basic but I feel like Im loosing my mind in the garage right now with this.
     
  13. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    That wasn't directed at you. The troll has again started entering threads I respond to here - in an obvious effort to distract everyone.
     
  14. DucatiThunder

    DucatiThunder New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2016
    OK, I was like Ducati's are Italian dude, lol. No troll here.

    So I verified the timing and its @ 28 deg at idle. I have to move the distributor a little past the idea location due to the cap not going on right and allowing for the wires to actually fit on the cap due to the fuel rails. What is the best route to take next for setting up the base timing to get this thing moving around the block? I will have to swap over my Mac to Windows Bootcamp to run the XFI software, which also doesnt allow me to have access the internet other then my phone. ITs a PITA set up but works for me.
     
  15. Fastnofast

    Fastnofast Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2017
    sometimes AA wants to be the only master on board. it must be excused.
    AA you should take your drops.
     
  16. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014

    That's great you found the ground disconnected. Since it runs now, you should only need to check timing with a timing light and adjust from there. Your ECU timing settings will need adjustment with some possible A/F adjustment. If you have an automatic transmission and your engine idle vacuum is above 10 inches, you could turn on the adaptive learning to help. Sounds like you are on your way to getting everything set well now. :)
     
  17. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Yeah, some old La Cosa Nostra action could do a lot of good here at times. Bona furtuna.

    28 at idle sounds high, but could be fine with a hot camshaft profile. You really want to find that number looking at a vacuum gauge for a steady reading. Yeah, those fuel rails may need some slight mod for clearance. At least your Ford has the distributor in front. Sometimes, there is a different style cap that works to give clearance.

    What compression, fuel octane, and camshaft do you have? From there, I can give you some ballpark timing figures.
     
  18. DucatiThunder

    DucatiThunder New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2016
    The dizzy cam gear got eatten @ 9K miles so a cam swap was needed. Right prior to that I swapped over to the XFI Sportsman from the EZ system due to it not working well with 8 Stack system and low vacuum signal. Brent Lykins set me up with a new cam that would give me more low end vacuum that would work better with the efi. After the install I decided to just bite the bullet and go with the dual sync distributor. The original cam ran ok but always richer then was needed. Most took it for a carbed cobra but it ran like a scalded cat. Ive attached the new cam card. The engine is a FRP 427w stroker.

    • Cylinder Heads: Ford Performance Aluminum "Z2" heads
    • Valve size (in): 2.02 intake 1.60 exhaust
    • Valve Springs: PAC® 1219X Ovate Beehive
    • Compression ratio: 10.5:1 (nominal)
    • Rocker arms : Roller Rockers
    • Rocker arm ratio: 1.65:1
    • Ignition timing: 32° at 4,000 RPM
    I run 93 Octane. With the old cam I ran 16-18 Deg base timing at idle no prob. The new distributor is a little taller then the old summit billet one. Its not bad, but I only get the little angle of adjustment that is between each distributor terminal with the boots on. I might swap over to straight plugs to get some more room. Would also fit the vintage look.

    The 28 Deg of timing was what I ended up with after setting the initial 30 Deg timing. I havent adjusted it in the XFI software yet. I was able to somewhat balance out al the stacks this afternoon to lean out the mix a little and get a better base idle.

    Any info you can provide on setting up the timing would be great to get this back on the road. The spark tuning is not my forte. Thanks!
     
  19. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    The camshaft attachment didn't make through. What is the .050 duration and lobe center?

    For now, the total mechanical timing at 32 degrees @4000 rpm slope sounds good with your compression. Once I have the cam specs, I can improve on that with some vacuum timing, and I'll know more about where the initial idle timing should be.
     
  20. DucatiThunder

    DucatiThunder New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2016
    Duration @ .050" is 239 and 241. LS is 110


    IMG_1306.JPG
     

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