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EZ-EFI 1.0. Engine will not start

Discussion in 'FAST Support Forum' started by Narler, Jan 12, 2019.

  1. Narler

    Narler Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2013
    Location:
    Australia
    Hi,
    Ran into this issue recently and just can't seem to identify what the cause is.

    Here's a brief recap. I bought the ez-efi and the dual kit back in 2012. From an operational/performance point of view it's worked great, apart from constantly dropping out of learning and that it uses an insane amount of fuel (search for my old posts for more information if you're curious because I don't want to bore you with all those woes at this time). Basically I've tried everything that was suggested and that I could think of and nothing resolved it, so I've just been driving it as is and came to the conclusion a long time ago that the EZ-EFI marketing does not match the operational reality of this product.

    For the last 2 weeks I've not been able to start the engine. It cranks over fine but just will not fire.

    Brief recap I'm running a ford FE bigblock 427cid, with dual Ez-EFI 1.0. I have a brand new 110amp alternator, a brand new CVR 4:1 starter motor and a few month old Odyssey PC2100 LMJT battery (540cca). All of this has been working fine on numerous trips.

    I have the colour hand held and it initially reports 200rpm when I start cranking and that drops to around 100rpm during sustained cranking. I also check and it reports that 6lb of fuel is being used during cranking. There are no errors or alerts shown. the O2 light is on.

    I also monitor my fuel pressure on the dash. I use AutoMeter Elite Series Analog Gauge #5671. When I turn on the key ready to crank, I hear the fuel pump spin up (not intank model) and I see the fuel pressure get to my set pressure of 45 psi. (Sender is connected to Fuel pressure regulator instead of the small supplied gauge).

    Using multimeter (and monitoring during cranking). Voltage at the battery is 12.7volts. This drops to 10.9 volts after sustained cranking (30+ seconds). The hand held though only reports 9.9 volts during cranking. This is one of my original complaints with the system. Why a 1 volt drop. I even multi-metered at the plug supplying power right at the hand held and it is close to what is monitored at the battery, so why the hand held reports a value so low I do not know. ECU is wired directly to battery as per the instructions.

    I crank the engine and it just simply won't fire. There is not even the slightest hint that it will fire. The fuel pump clearly is at pressure and if the hand held is reporting that there is 6lb of fuel being supplied then surely that must mean it is firing the injectors else why would it be reporting a fuel value?

    Spark is being delivered by a MSD 6AL and mallory dual point distributor.

    As a test I've disconnected the battery and let the whole system be without power for a bit in case there was some condition that was met. I have also had the battery on charge (using an odyssey specific charger) for a day before attempting to crank again and I've also tried adding a 600 amp LiPo4 jump starter pack as well and absolutely no difference.

    The only thing that happened on the last trip I did in the car is my dash camera blew an inline / inplug fuse (5 amp) (using cigarette lighter plug), I put in another one and that blew as well, so I just left the camera disconnected. Car started fine on that day after it had blow the fuse. I'm mentioning this just in case it may be of relevance.

    If anyone has any ideas I would be most grateful.

    Thanks for reading
    Regards
     
  2. gremlinmt

    gremlinmt Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2013
    Have you proven spark at the spark plug? Can you hear the injectors firing? Will it start cough when using starter fluid?
     
  3. Narler

    Narler Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2013
    Location:
    Australia
    Hi,

    Thanks for the reply.

    No I have not heard the injectors fire (pre-squirt) for numerous start attempts. I think this is a side effect of the system knowing it has not started and therefore does not pre-squirt on each start attempt.

    I have no starter fluid so have not tried that. I may get some and have on hand. On the previous start attempts yesterday I could smell fuel.

    I pulled #1 spark plug today and ground it to the shocktower. Definitely have spark and while I was testing this the engine attempted to fire and indeed did (although on 7 cylinders). So I switched it off put #1 plug back in and on the next start attempt I heard the injectors pre-squirt and then it fired immediately. I idled it for about 5 minutes, switched it off waited a few minutes and tried again and it fired immediately then too.

    Totally strange. The only thing I did different this time was leave the key on to accessories and it was like that for about 5+ minutes while I worked on the car (before any starting attempt today). Normally I only key on when ready to start and key off immediately upon failure or engine off. I have no radio / sound system etc in the car so no need to leave key on accessories.

    Surely that would have had no impact on the ECU. I always wait until I get the O2 light before I attempt to start anyway.

    Thanks. So problem averted at the moment, just not sure what actually got it past the issue and considering this is the second instant it's refused to start on numerous crank attempts (thankfully on that last time it did eventually start but left me stranded in a carpark for 45 minutes while I tried to get it running), I doubt the problem is actually resolved and as this time it wouldn't start for days of trying, it seems that when this "condition" does appear it's escalating.

    Regards
     
  4. Narler

    Narler Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2013
    Location:
    Australia
    Hi

    Thanks for the reply. As mentioned above I'm using a MSD 6AL. I am also using the MSD variable timing module #8680 and using a MSD Blaster 2 Coil. The coil is a few years old though.

    If it was a temp issue with the ignition box then cooling it would be a good thing to try, however the car has been stuck in the garage for 2 weeks as I've been unable to start it (ambient temp here is 31 degC at the moment). So I don't think it's a heat issue.

    I might get a new coil such as the MSD Blaster 3 and see if the issue re-appears.

    Thanks for your input.

    Regards
     
  5. Narler

    Narler Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2013
    Location:
    Australia
    Hi A A.

    Thanks for your replies and additional information. Thanks also for taking the time to read some of my previous posts and offering advice on that situation too.

    The Distributor and rotor were the first things I checked as I have experienced a failure there in the past. All good this time though, but I appreciate your suggestion to help identify the possible culprit.

    Now that it is running it's a bit hard for me to check the 6AL, but I will check the coil with a multimeter (probably on the weekend) and see if it's ohms reading is in range, but as it's quite a few years old I think i'll just buy a new one anyway. Not sure what their expected life should be, especially in situations like non-stock motors, but this isn't my daily driver and certainly not done the 100,000km's that is reported to be the standard lifespan.

    With the O2 sensor. If I'm reading what you typed correctly. If the O2 sensor is incorrectly reporting a lean condition my Ez-EFI ECU will attempt to add more fuel, so that could be why this engine is so thirsty? It's been like this from the first day of running with the EFI. To give you an idea the last tank of fuel consumed (85lt) and using no more than 15% throttle for the whole trip (engine only uses 5 - 6% throttle cruising on the highway at 100kmph. reading that % from the TPS value on the hand held) I achieved an economy of 5.93 MPG (using US gallon). If I take the average from the last 15 tanks of fuel then it is 7.14 MPG.

    I have the Ez-EFI A/F target currently set to 15.0 and watching the hand held it stays around that most of the time, until it drops out of learning then it goes psycho. Engine still runs fine even if I peg the A/F ratio to 15.9:1. The only difference then is the engine is slightly less responsive and uses slightly less fuel.

    Are there any other scenarios that could cause the O2 sensor to give a false lean condition? For example a small exhaust leak? Just trying to identify other things I can check before I start ordering more parts.

    Regards
     
  6. gremlinmt

    gremlinmt Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2013
    Yes, an exhaust leak could cause lean readings at the O2 sensor, so could not having enough exhaust pipe after the O2 sensor. We recently had guy here pressure test his headers and found dozens of pinhole leaks completely hidden by his ceramic coating. A change to a cast iron manifold solved his fueling issues. I can't imagine an engine running fine at 15.9afr. That is Prius like AFR.
     
  7. Narler

    Narler Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2013
    Location:
    Australia
    Hi gremlinmt and A A

    Thanks for your replies.

    .050 cam duration is 253. It is a solid cam.

    Is this the correct O2 sensor to use. FAST 170408

    Component placement? I have the ECU mounted inside on the firewall (not in engine bay) and spaced 15mm off the firewall for ventilation.

    Map sensor. That is one more design flaw with the system when running Dual TBI's. There is no vacuum port on the second throttle body and that causes really erratic vacuum readings. I hooked up a gauge to the vacuum port on the primary TBI and it just about shook itself to pieces, the reading was that erratic. (yes I'm pretty sure that is a side effect of running dual plane manifold, but reality is that would have been something pretty easy for them to detect if they had tested that when they designed it). The same design flaw exists if you hook up the Fuel Pressure Regulator to the "as suggested" vacuum port on the primary TBI.

    So no balance between the two TBI's means running a MAP on just one TBI (as manufacturer intended) is utterly useless. I switched out the TBI mounted map sensor to a remote MAP. (FST-307007 MAP Sensor, 1-Bar, GM Style) 3 years ago. I feed that from a known vacuum port on the intake and I also have a vacuum gauge reading at that same location so i can monitor that vacuum reading in the cab and it's much more stable now. It didn't resolve the fuel usage issue but I'm sure that was the right alteration / upgrade to make for the long term reliability of the system.

    MAP reads 100 with key on / engine off. (I have some pictures and in those it was reading 102) I live at sea level (about 400 meters from the east coast of Australia). Idle I have currently set at 850rpm and it can sustain that but is a bit rough when the engine is cold, so have to play with the throttle a little initially to keep it smooth, but then it's fine.

    Oil feels and smells fine.

    Exhaust is rich and strong. Burns your eyes if you run the car and don't pull it out of the garage ASAP. Also leaving it idle in the garage and it leaves black stains behind each exhaust on the concrete for about 2 meters.

    I'm organizing to get the exhaust manifold on the side with the O2 sensor checked and I will order a new 170408 O2 sensor. Also I believe the no run issue is the coil so I'm going to replace that with a MSD 8222 (potted blaster coil instead of the oil filled blaster 2). No-one has stock of that locally so have to order it from interstate.

    When I fit the new O2 sensor what should I look for to see if it is reporting something different than the current O2 sensor? Is it only the A/F ratio, because as mentioned the value I set (A/F Target) versus the actual value (A/F Ratio) reported on the hand held are usually reasonably similar unless it drops out of learning. I still see - values in the O2 correction. One thing I have noticed is that sometimes while driving my A/F target changes (and no I'm not at WOT), so not sure while in cruise mode why the A/F target would change.

    I'm considering the XFI Street ECU upgrade to see if that would give me better control over fuel and I wonder if this would give me more information because it can datalog. it says it's wire/pin compatible with EZ-EFI but the FAST website is very light on details and makes no mention if it's compatible with the new colour hand held or not.

    https://www.fuelairspark.com/xfi-street-engine-management-system-retrofit.html

    Thanks for your help.

    Regards
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
  8. Caprimaniac

    Caprimaniac Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2011
    You have spark.

    What's left is to check the fuel.
     
  9. Narler

    Narler Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2013
    Location:
    Australia
    Hi A A and Caprimaniac,

    Thanks for your replies.

    Here's the answer to your questions and an update on the status.

    I have ordered a new O2 sensor, new exhaust manifold gaskets (as precaution will replace these anyway when I test the headers) and MSD 8222 coil and just received notification today that my order has been shipped, so hopefully will have that by the end of the week.

    ECU is mounted on the firewall inside the cab (where the heater box normally sits, which I have removed). There is nothing close to it at all and there are no amps or speakers in the car at all. Not even a cd or radio head unit. I just like listening to the engine. The fan controller I am running ( https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/der-16789 ) is mounted next to the battery and the fans I am running ( https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/der-16831 ) to reduce cable distances as the fans draw about 38 amps. So that controller is 6 + feet away. The closest device to the ECU is the MSD 6AL and that would still be 2 foot away.

    Engine compression should be 11:1 and I only use premium fuel. Timing I had checked while running on a dyno (but this is with the Ez-EFI running as is.). Maximum timing is 34 degrees but using the MSD 8680 in the cab, I usually have it set to between 30 and 32 degrees while cruising. Distributor is a Mallory dual point and it has no vacuum advance at all.

    Manifold Vacuum. For me to produce 10 in/Hg I would need to set idle to 1,200 rpm. here are my vacuum readings for reference.

    Engine is at temperature (184 degF) and transmission is in park.

    engine off but key on MAP 100.
    at 850rpm MAP is 80 and actual vacuum is 7 in/Hg (this is my current idle)
    at 1000rpm MAP is 71 and actual vacuum is 8 in/Hg
    at 1500rpm MAP is 53 and actual vacuum is 13 in/Hg
    at 2000rpm MAP is 44 and actual vacuum is 16 in/Hg (throttle usage is 2%)

    I sent an email to FAST last week detailing my engine and my experiences plus what I have tried and the results and asked a few questions about the XFI Street and the handheld and have received a reply today from Matt. He has offered me the XFI street upgrade for the RRP price as listed on their website.

    One question I asked was about the compatibility of the 170633 color hand held and if it was compatible with the XFI street. his reply is as follows

    The touchscreen handheld you have now can be used to monitor the XFI Street ECU. You just cannot make any changes to programming with it.

    So that is something at least and maybe helpful for anyone else considering the upgrade, so the eDash is not required if you just wish to monitor in real time what's happening while driving.

    To answer Caprimaniacs question.

    I use premium fuel only and due to the consumption rate doesn't stay in the tank long, so I don't think it's a case of the fuel going bad. The economy stays pretty poor and as mentioned above, fuel consumption values have been averaged over 15 tanks of fuel which equates to over 1,200 litres. If you mean the fuel may be the issue as to why the engine did not start. The car started fine on the previous trip then a week or so later would not fire. I know fuel can go bad but that is a pretty short duration.

    Regards
     
  10. gremlinmt

    gremlinmt Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2013
    That is very interesting information that the EZ-EFI color handheld can be used with the street ECU. I hadn't heard that before. I was under the impression that I'd have to move to a an XFI handheld.

    IMO, 7" of vacuum makes it very hard for the EZ ECU to tune itself in. You may continue to have problems even if a new O2 sensor gives better readings.

    Without vac advance, fuel economy will always be poor. I see 7 mpg with vac advance disconnect and better than 10 mpg (as high as 16mpg) in city driving. The next question you should be asking yourself is do I want vac advance? Because if you lock the distributor out and go to the Sportsman ecu and wiring harness, you can get timing control as well. That would be pretty tempting to me.
     
  11. Narler

    Narler Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2013
    Location:
    Australia
    Hi gremlinmt and A A

    Thanks again for your replies and information.

    The email from FAST was from Matt Maxwell. What I'm finding in general is there is a real lack of information from FAST about their products. Even the XFI Street product page has no where near enough information on it for the average person to make an informed decision to buy it or not. If it wasn't for reading posts in this forum I would not have given that item a second look due to such limited information from the manufacturer.

    The page doesn't even list what is supplied with the ECU (other than C-Com software). I have no idea if it is supplied with the cables to connect to a laptop and/or what cables would be required. They really need more pictures and more details, especially about compatibility like the hand held.

    I read this article http://www.cpgnation.com/mean-streets-fast-efi-upgrade/ as the title seemed exactly what I was after The Mean Streets: FAST EFI Upgrade. But upon reading, that was not an EFI upgrade it was a vanilla install of XFI Street using Throttle Body vs Carby. I was expecting it to be an EFI upgrade, as in upgrading from Ez-EFI to XFI Street because the XFI Street was designed as the upgrade, sure they mention the EZ-EFI but they give no comparison information between Ez-EFI and XFI Street in their tests, or discussed any differences in the system or the configuration. Oh well.

    I think it's worth stating that I'm not a mechanic (although that's probably evident to you all by now anyway) and when I had my engine built in 1999 by a friend who is a ford big block specialist, I have in my notes that he did modify the Mallory distributor when the MSD was fitted and it only has 1 set of points in it. The reason I have no vacuum advance is there is not enough clearance for any other type of distributor with this manifold, because nothing else would fit and clear the carby fuel bowls. When I fitted the Ez-Efi myself and then ran into operational / performance issues with the system, I had the distributor tested and recurved based on the dyno data but exactly what they did internally to it, I do not know. The dyno place did not provide detailed changes, but the engine did run better.

    In a best case scenario having the engine run optimally would be great, but upgrading even further to an XFi Sportsman seems like a huge step, especially with a real lack of information from FAST as to what is involved.

    Does anyone know of any articles or videos where someone has upgraded from Ez-EFI 1.0 to XFI Sportsman? I sure would like to see what's involved and how the wiring is different before I take that leap.

    It's a huge amount of additional money assuming this is the product that I would need to consider https://www.fuelairspark.com/xfi-sportsmantm-engine-control-system.html ($1579.97) Plus I have to factor in exchange rate (1.4:1) and taxes here so without freight that is $2,433.15 AUD! The XFI Street ECU upgrade without freight would already set me back $956.48 AUD. So the Sportsman is 2.5 times the price.

    I read this forum post http://www.cpgnation.com/forum/threads/fast-ez-efi-1-0-convert-to-xfi-sportsman.26155/ where chevyk10 mentioned that his discussion with FAST said XFI Sportsman was not really compatible with EZ-EFI 1.0, yet FAST webpage for XFI Sportsman says it is compatible with Ez-EFI. Quoting their webpage

    works with a variety of multi-port systems or either generation of the FAST™ EZ-EFI® throttle body

    I don't want to be led down the proverbial garden path with misleading advertising again, like I was when I purchased the Ez_EFI 1.0 system, where the marketing clearly stated (and I quote).

    An EZ Solution For Any Setup.
    For more aggressive applications, the EZ-EFI Dual Quad Upgrade Kit is capable of supporting 1200+ horsepower engines with dual quad carburetor type manifolds.


    So if it is questionable that XFI Sportsman is compatible with EZ-EFI 1.0, am I just opening myself to even larger problems as I am running Dual EZ-EFI 1.0 Throttle Bodies. I think the XFI Street might be my only really viable option, but I welcome all comments and suggestions.

    Thanks
     
  12. Narler

    Narler Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2013
    Location:
    Australia
    Hi A A

    Thanks for your additional information.

    FAST got back to me with a quote for shipping (FedEx) and it was $154.49 US. (or $216.27 AUD). Matt advised me to purchase through Summit or Jegs instead. So I check with Summit and when I add that item to my cart a notice appears telling me that this item will be shipped directly from the manufacturer and if I order today item will be picked up on the 14th of February (almost 3 weeks away). sigh..

    Thanks for the info on the Sportsman. I've looked all over the fast website (fuelairspark) and I can't find any reference to a harness from ez-efi 1.0 to sportsman. I was just curious to see what it costs. But it's all academic as the cost to upgrade to the sportsman I think is just too high and there's too many unknowns. I'm having enough trouble just trying to buy a XFI Street ECU.

    Also some other information that may be of benefit to other forum viewers. In my email to FAST I detailed what I said above about the erratic vacuum values when using the recommended MAP position and also when I tested the port FAST recommend to connect to the Fuel Pressure Regulator.

    Matt mentioned in his reply that this is a problem and the Fuel Pressure Regulator must receive correct vacuum information else the system will run rich when you let off the throttle. I have seen this on my hand held some times, where cruising at 3% throttle and ease off, my AF ratio goes from my set 15.0 down to the mid 9's instantly, the system drops out of learning and the O2 correction goes into major negatives.

    So what I will do is relocate the vacuum supply to the Fuel Pressure Regulator to the same line that I setup which is feeding my remote MAP and in cabin vacuum gauge.

    He also provided me with this video link about Fuel pressure Regulators.



    I must say i found that video perplexing. Especially the statement made at the start. I have always been of the belief that the task of the FPR was to maintain constant fuel pressure. In that video they state that is wrong, but what they failed to address by making such a statement is that they gave no point of reference and in my opinion the only point of reference that is of any relevance when it comes to fuel pressure is at the point of delivery (i.e. the injector). So using the injector as the most logical point of reference, the job of the FPR is indeed to maintain constant fuel pressure there, so the injector always has the *set* fuel pressure irrespective of any other pressures/forces it is being subjected to. If fuel pressure is 45psi (set with engine off) and now with engine running manifold pressure is 10 in/Hg, the injector should still be operating constantly at 45psi higher than manifold pressure / vacuum influence.

    But putting that video aside what I have noticed is using the manufacturer vacuum port on the Throttle Body is ineffective on my setup. It is providing a useless vacuum value which is clearly causing inefficiency or ineffectiveness with the Fuel Pressure Regulator to maintain constant fuel pressure *at the injectors*.

    My other parts arrived today, so I'll hopefully get to install and test them this weekend and I'll address the vacuum source for the FPR as well, then see how it runs.

    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2019
  13. Fastmanefi

    Fastmanefi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2011
    Location:
    Sonora, CA
    Narler, I can explain all the differences and considerations between these products. Feel free to call me. I answer the phone!
    Rich Nedbal
    Fastmanefi.com
     
  14. Narler

    Narler Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2013
    Location:
    Australia
    Hi Fastmanefi,

    Thanks, I appreciate your offer. I am in Australia though so there's a bit of time difference (I'm 18 hours ahead of you) and I don't have international on my phone plan, so the call would be quite expensive for me.

    I guess the key question is not what are the differences between Sportsman and Street, but more about what are the requirements to upgrade to that system from my existing EZ-EFI 1.0 dual setup. Then is the upgrade to Sportsman worth the 2.5 times increase in cost (by the time I factor in currency conversion and taxes). Would I see a vast improvement in fuel efficiency and engine operation with the sportsman to justify the cost versus the street?

    Unfortunately now back on to the will not start problem. it's back. So I fitted the 8222 coil and re plumbed the FPR today so it is now connected to where the MAP and my in cab vacuum gauge is. Started the car and for the first time I actually saw the O2 correction adding fuel... and in the 20+ range. Like what.. So I idled the car for about 5 minutes and then it stalled out. RPM dropped from around 900rpm down to 300rpm and engine died. I thought oh well no worries, I'll take it for a test drive, but I'll reset my A/F first in case it just leaned out, so I set A/F to 14.1 (from 15.0) and idle I set to 13.9 (from 15.0). Tried to start the car and now the engine won't fire.

    So I pulled #1 plug and no spark. Surely my brand new 8222 coil didn't just die?

    A A mentioned to disconnect the MSD 8680 (see attached image from MSD 6AL manual showing how the wiring is), but before that I thought I'd check the troubleshooting section of the 6AL manual.

    It says. Remove Coil wire from distributor and place 1/2 inch from a ground. Disconnect MSD white trigger wire from distributor. Turn on engine (not cranking) and tap white wire to ground several times. Each lift off of the wire should see a spark from the coil wire.

    So I disconnected the white wire from the Yellow wire (of the 8680) and ground the white wire and I got no spark from the coil, however I did hear noise (which I can only assume was the injectors firing but not like a presquirt tick tick tick, more scratchy) and the Ez-EFI blue light came on each time I grounded that white wire. That had me a bit concerned, so I stopped doing that test. I reconnected the white wire back to the yellow wire and then at the distributor disconnected the wire and ground that. Same result. Noise from the injectors and no spark, so I stopped that test.

    To double check wiring, I ran a new 10amp line from the MSD 6AL (white wire) direct to the distributor (thereby circumventing the 8680 timing module and eliminating all existing wire from that to the distributor). Still no spark on #1 plug when cranking.

    MSD manual says if there's no spark then inspect the wiring, try another coil and check if there are 12volts at the small redwire from the MSD (as the switched key on source). So this is my second coil, I multimetered the voltage at that red wire right at the MSD and it was 12.5volts and clearly something is live on that white wire for the Ez-EFI to react.

    If still no spark then MSD ignition is in need of repair, is the last bit of info they provide in the troubleshooting.

    But I noticed there was no mention to test the voltage at the Orange and Black wires from the MSD 6AL to the coil? Surely that would be the first thing to test to see if voltage is reaching the coil, or am I missing something or is there no ability to monitor that if engine is not running?
    *edit* just answered my own question. Found the reason why here https://www.holley.com/support/troubleshooting_techniques/#No12v

    Does anyone have any other ideas of how I can check the MSD 6AL to try and isolate the problem.

    Or should I just order another MSD 6AL. Ah the costs never seem to end. Just looking now and wow there's so many different models of 6AL. Oh and now I see a 6AL-2 (MSD65303) that has programmable timing via laptop.

    Having timing control was one of the key benefits of the XFI Sportsman. If I was to use a XFI Sportsman, would I still need a MSD 6AL? or does the sportsman only do the timing, not spark creation?

    Seeing as I may have to replace my 6AL anyway it's only a small increase to the AL-2 with tunable timing, so that may be a very good option to consider. *IF I have to replace my 6AL*

    Also just for curiosity I multimetered the two coils. My Blaster 2 coil from + to - was 0.6 ohms. From + to coil wire was 10.56 K ohms. Now testing the new 8222 blaster. from + to - was 0.6 ohms. from + to coil wire was 6.22K ohms. So from what information I have both seem to be within normal operating range.

    Thanks for any assistance.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019
  15. gremlinmt

    gremlinmt Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2013
    The MSD is still generating a tach signal so that's why your injectors are firing, but the 6AL sure sounds like it tests bad if it isn't generating spark into the cap. I don't see anything in the MSD 6AL-2 programmable that allows for vac advance. AA can speak towards fuel efficiency increases on your setup.
     
  16. Narler

    Narler Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2013
    Location:
    Australia
    Hi gremlinmt and A A,

    Thanks for your continued input.

    gremlinmt. There seems no mention of Vacuum on the website for the 6AL-2 programmable, but see attached image showing the install options in the manual. It has MAP sensor input. That way it can monitor vacuum directly. I can not see any MAP sensor included with it though so I would have to install another MAP in order to utilize that feature. I also found a youtube video where the 6AL-2 was being tested on a bench with a scope and he went through all the connections including the 3-bar map he had plugged in. The information from MSD seems a bit sparse as to what bar MAP to use though, maybe that's configurable in the programming.

    A A. yes I totally agree with you and I'll be just as frank in my reply. I felt ripped off and mislead by FAST advertising when I was researching what system to buy back in 2012. See attached image. This is a screen capture from their brochure and you can clearly see the wording they used, so you can make your own assessment of the claims made at that time. Now almost 7 years later everyone knows that marketing was just utter rubbish and totally wrong, but now I already have the system. There was nothing else at the time making claims like that and as I have an expensive genuine ford manifold it was good to find a product claiming it would work with it. I consulted numerous mechanics and speed shops at that time and no-one was aware of the limitations of Ez-EFI. FAST never detailed any scenarios that it would not work with (ie low vacuum / large cam / dual plane manifolds). Even now FAST still don't make people aware of those limitations with their listings of Ez-EFI systems on their website (that I could find).

    But now back to reality, this is the system I have and been fighting with it for 6 years trying to get it to run better and I am looking to find a better solution where the return is hopefully equal to the cash outlay. So far the XFI street looks like the way to go, all I have to do is find some where to buy it from, as mentioned above, FAST gave me a quote but suggest I try Summit, and Summit tell me the item will be shipped direct from the manufacturer (in 3 weeks). I've also talked to a major speedshop here in Australia where I buy my other parts from called Rocket Industries https://www.rocketindustries.com.au/ and they can provide the 304003 but it is currently not a stocked item as it does not appear on their website. So looks like it's a waiting game.

    My engine was built in 1999 and pump fuel was better then. Nowdays the fuel here is rubbish and they moved to a "RON" (Research Octane Number) system for making claims to its octane. So many people think that 91 RON is 91 octane is not funny, the reality is 91 RON is only 86 octane. Here in Australia we only have 91RON, 95RON and 98RON. So that means the best fuel is really only 93 octane. When we had leaded fuel it was called Super, and that was 95 octane and I also had access to AVGas (which was up to 130 octane depending on the blend). With the decreasing fuel quality / banning of Super and introduction of unleaded and the restriction on AVGas, I was using a VP Racing fuels additive to increase the octane by up to 8 points, giving me 101 octane in the tank, but now import of that is banned (or discouraged with heavy taxes) due to lead content that no-one wants to bring it in anymore and is why I went with the MSD 8680 timing module so I could adjust the timing and also at that time decided to research other options such as EFI.

    I don't push the car hard anymore, just want to cruise around and to do that economy becomes a bit more of a priority and that's what I don't have. Slow cruise is 7mpg average.

    With my testing of the MSD 6AL when I ground that white wire and I hear noise from the injectors and the EZ-EFI light comes on, that's not doing any damage is it? I didn't want to ground the white wire for long when I heard the noise and from the MSD manual the spark should happen on lift off, of the wire. So is it safe to test that again to just make sure the MSD is dead or failing? I had fuel pumps turned off.

    *edit*
    Oh I forgot to mention. In regards to Timing, no I'm not craving that feature, but if that was the main benefit in using the sportsman and if I have to replace my 6AL anyway the Al-2 programmable is a very cheap alternative to get timing control.

    The one question I forgot to ask, is how do you lock out the distributor. I could only find 1 video on youtube and it was useless. Is there a guide as to how to do it, or is it best to get someone to do it that's experienced with distributors (ie mechanic).

    Thanks
     

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    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019

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