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EZ EFI 2.0 Injection With Dual Plane Intake Vs Single Plane

Discussion in 'FAST Support Forum' started by A A, Mar 15, 2016.

  1. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    You shouldn't be having any problem with those numbers. Ideally, the pinion and transmission angles would be parallel, but rear end wrap up would need control. You might add a shim at the transmission mount, but I would look for something else causing the vibration - flywheel imbalance, driveshaft imbalance, bad u-joint, or a rear end bearing or gear problem. Depending on how your 383 was balanced, you could have the wrong flywheel or harmonic balancer. Also, be sure the yoke spline to trans splines are running with enough end to end clearance - with the trans splines not bottoming out in the yoke or the yoke too deep in the trans housing. Sometimes, a simple rotation of 180 degrees of the shaft in the rear yoke will cure vibration.
     
  2. J.K.

    J.K. Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2016
    I was hoping it is the driveline angles. This means I'm going to be hunting for a needle in a haystack. As for motor....it was an internal balance, so my balancer and flywheel are zero or neutral balance. My gut tells me it's probably not here, also i put the car straight onto a chassis dyno after the motor install and the dyno operator also commented to me that i had a driveline vibe. Why I thought it was pinion related is...it was more obvious under heavier load which I interpreted to being more axle wrap from heavy torque. I've tried just rolling on the throttle in second gear right up to 5000 rpm and I don't feel it then. Seems to be a speed sensitive vibe through the shifter or heavy throttle in a higher gear that puts more load on the drive train. I'm going to try it with the CE bars removed....it seems to me this became an issue right around the time I installed those. I do have about 1/4 play in the snubber at ride height, maybe that's to tight, I didn't think it was.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2016
  3. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Shimming the trans upward to a more neutral angle might be a better idea, as it's more easily done. Something that sometimes happens with Camaro and Firebird is the motor mounts get replaced or swapped for the wrong part - raising the engine in the bay and causing the trans angle to point downward more. GM makes a number of mounts that look the same. The bad thing is all of them locate the engine differently. Even getting the correct height aftermarket parts can be a challenge. I've even seen tall pickup truck mounts stabbed into a Firebird before - raising the engine far too high in the bay and the front of the trans in the tunnel area. I have no idea why that was done unless was an engine swap mistake or someone thought it would give more oil pan clearance, but it was a crazy wrong thing to do. A correct height Moroso steel with early style poly mount corrected the problem.
     
  4. J.K.

    J.K. Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2016
    Yeah could very well be a series of issues. My car is far from stock already. I still have the original mounts on the motor, the frame mounts were replaced but I did order for my 81 Camaro. They look correct. But I did also change the factory four speed for a tremec TKO 600 kit. I never measured the stock angle (wish I had) so I don't have that for a reference. I can raise it about 1/4 before hitting the tunnel. Oh the joys of installing parts in cars they weren't intended for.
     
  5. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    1/4" - yeah, sounds like the motor is sitting higher than factory and/or to the rear some. I believe that is the problem. There should be a good inch of upward change that can be made there before anything hits in the tunnel. I have a factory '79 Berlinetta I bought new. The rear of the automatic trans can be raised easily from the cross member. If the car wasn't in storage, I would get the factory angles for you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2016
  6. J.K.

    J.K. Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2016
    Rain let up, so the vibe must wait. I am starting to suspect it's in the transmission though. Anyhow...I was able to put some more miles on it today, and sad to report things haven't improved any yet. As it stands right now both the xr294hr and xfi292 cam have about the same low speed drivability. Even though the XFI makes more vacume. Something else has to be wrong. That exhaust note that sounds like an engine miss during light loads I'm starting to question if a valve is leaking. Both cams do the exact same. The lifter preload on this cam I did according to spec which is 1/2 turn past zero. I guess a compression test is next.
     
  7. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Do a Wizard reset. Take your idle to 800 RPM. Set initial timing to 22 degrees, slope to 3400, all-in timing to 28 degrees, WOT at 12.5. Keep the vacuum timing turned off. Be sure the manifold vacuum is connected to the fuel regulator and calibrated properly. Check that none of the plugs are fouled. Use a vacuum gauge to be sure you have a steady idle vacuum using the initial timing - move the initial timing up and down slightly to get the highest steady vacuum reading. The vacuum gauge will also let you know if there is a valve problem. Drive the car gently. Do not get on it hard. Your cylinders could be heavy with carbon and oil that will slowly burn away. This can be fouling the plugs and/or causing bad O2 readings until it burns away.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2016
  8. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    After making these settings and driving around some, install a new NGK heat range 8 plug in one cylinder and do ONE quick full throttle pull and immediately killing the ignition and coasting to a stop. Do not drive around with this new plug in the engine - only do the one pull with it. Then replace it with the old plug. Show a photo of the new plug and the new handheld readings at idle. If you drive around on this new plug, I can not tell if it is the correct heat range or judge the correct range needed.
     
  9. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Don't close the gap, and definitely don't waste time with the iridium plugs. When the compression increased, the engine needed a colder plug. Your compression ratio isn't high enough to blow out the spark of just a good factory ignition. 13 or 14 to one, and then it can become a problem. CD ignitions prevent much of the need to close gaps and can allow wider gaps. You want as wide a gap as can be used to give a larger flame front ignition. That's why some factory plugs come gapped as wide as .060-.080.

    Wire spacing is not the problem, consecutive firing cylinders with wires running parallel is. MSD Spiral Pro Wire are only less susceptible to inductive firing. Cross the wires of consecutively firing cylinders and keep them separated in the loom by at least one other wire. You also don't want any of your FAST system wiring running close to or parallel to the secondary sparkplug wiring. Also, be sure your wires have no voltage leaks anywhere. They can leak between the wire insulation and boot if not cleanly assembled with dielectric grease. I've seen people think they did a good job assembling their plug wires - only to see sparks running everywhere under the hood at night.
     
  10. J.K.

    J.K. Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2016
    What you said about the plug gap makes me feel hopeful. I did try gaping the plugs from .035 to .040 just for fun....I don't want to jump to conclusions to quick but it did sound as if that miss that I hear at light loads was less. Since I did the re-gap with a cooled down engine, when I did bring it back up to Temps for a test drive, it acted as if it was learning a new tune. Amazing how sensitive small changes are on the ECU. I will give this tune a couple more days before I make a judgement on it. I'm trying to limit how many things I change at once to better track the changes.
    If I can get it to stop falling lean of idle with light take off...I will be a happy happy camper.
     
  11. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Here's what I was doing today - body work on my '85 TA. I really hate body work, although I have always done it well.

    Since new, I had always noticed my passenger door had a tight gap between the door and the fender and a wide one at the door to quarter panel - but nothing leaked. The two door hinges were still like new, but I had to replace the passenger door latch assembly - replacing the door latch assembly was what got me looking closer. When I did, I also noticed there was a metal quarter panel to rubber door bumper above the latch assembly that had never made contact like the one on my driver's door does - totally unworn. Hmmm. I decided to adjust the body side door hinges rearward. GM dim-wittedly welded both of those hinges to the door - made me think of how I would like to plant a hard swift kick to some GM engineer's butt with my size 10-1/2 D boot . At least the door was sitting flush with the fender and quarter panel, and the hinges were still good - so that part wasn't a problem.

    I tried to adjust both hinges rearward three times before I spotted what was happening. Arrrgh! Every time I adjusted the third bolt, fender side and hardest bolt to get at, it was pulling my door right back where it had been. I pulled all the hinge bolts. Sure enough, GM had played another *Banned* game with the hinges. they had slotted both bolt holes on each hinge for the bolts easiest to get to. What you couldn't see, without pulling the door, was the hole for each hard to get at bolt was not slotted or enlarged - meaning you have to drill it or leave the front bolt out on each hinge to adjust the door backward or forward. I drilled the holes out and re-adjusted my door. It now has the same even gap to the quarter panel and at the fender. The small rear rubber bumper now meets the quarter panel metal one, made for it to contact, perfectly. I should have made GM correct this 31 years ago. It's probably what made the original door latch go bad. My driver side door hinges are worn a little and will need the new aftermarket repair kit - and then, this TA is off for new Wild Cherry Kosmic Kolor House of Kolor paint. No more rat rod look! Once painted, I'm replacing the GM rubber seals and gaskets, for the entire body, with all new GM OEM parts I've had stored for some years. All of this TA will soon be better than new.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2016
  12. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    If you are actually having a lean condition, once the ECU has learned settings, you can adjust the Accel Fuel.
     
  13. J.K.

    J.K. Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2016
    The accel setting doesn't help for this lean spot. With swift rapid throttle movement it responds very well. The problem is right off idle (just barely tipping in the throttle and holding it there like in a slow moving traffic situation). It starts moving the car ok but if I maintain say .7 volts tps, it rapidly dips all out lean, the car feels like the fuel shut off...then learn light kicks in since throttle is stable and the fuel corrects itself and the car picks up again. This whole process takes only a second or two...but it's very annoying.
    I suspect this system may never work properly on my application. But I can't afford the sportsman ECU at this time, I've already soaked a pile of cash into this thing to make it right. Winter here is only a few months away...if by then it hasn't improved, I'll be putting the carb back on till I can afford the sportsman. I'm still crossing my fingers that I can get this to work somewhat better.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2016
  14. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    What you're describing sounds like learning may not be actually taking place - like maybe there is bad memory in the ECU. I would give FAST tech a call and RMA the unit to be fully checked. Or, this could also be a wiring or placement issue. Radios or their wiring, electronics, etc., placed to near the ECU or its wiring will cause erratic behavior. The ECU should be at least a foot away from other electronics, the distributor, MSD CD, etc.

    Use the Accel Fuel to check the unit - paragraph 6, page 51, of the user manual. It might also be useful to use the trouble shooting procedures found on pages 65 and 66 of the user manual.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2016
  15. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Update on my TA. I have had the car stored for the last October and hadn't started it. When I started it today, it cranked and ran fine - the EZ EFI 2.0 working great.

    Then... the engine died and wouldn't restart. RATS! Found one of my dual electric fans had just burned out, but the other was still good. Somehow, there was no power to either. Hoping there is no ECU fan wire or relay problem, and it is only a power wire issue from the battery. After a while, I found the ECU points connection to the MSD box was bad - even though the connection looked clean, finally got the engine restarted, and parked the car outside. I'll be checking everything out before driving the TA again. Just my luck - when I thought I was going on a nice Spring drive with the T-Tops off.
     
  16. J.K.

    J.K. Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2016
    Glad to hear it wasn't anything serious. My car has been parked for the winter and so I haven't had much to update. Now that springs here I have done a few things over the winter to prep for the new season and hopefully a remedy to the off idle tuning issues I had. Through all my journey we were speculating very slight preignition to be the possible cause of the tuning issues. Being that I'm at about 10.2:1 compression on 91 octane. 94 octane is available here but has ethanol in it which I'm told by some local car guys isn't a good thing either. So in an effort to hopefully keep the problem under control I swapped out the copper rad for a bigger aluminum rad, one step colder on the plugs, and I can try a 160 thermostat also. If after all this I'm not successful, I'll be swapping out the 65cc heads for some 72's. Hoping it doesn't come to that. I just can't be bothered mixing fuels to up the octane. I want to be good with 91
     
  17. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Yeah, fuel is garbage these days - never know when it will have water in it. You might want to drop your total timing to 28 degrees and work on your idle and cruise A/F from there. I tuned my iron head '81 GMC for pump regular and it is running great - light gray exhaust pipe coloration with the plugs showing correct timing on the side electrode and F/A mixes (light tan ceramic with 14.3 idle and 14.7 cruise) I think that engine is 9.0:1 or 9.8:1 (can't remember since I built it back in '90). The EZ EFI 2.0 ECU timing on it worked out to 24 degrees mechanical and 6 degrees vacuum for a total of 30 for pump regular. I was plagued with getting bad fuel in the TA, but finally changed stations and eliminated that problem.

    That new fan motor is about $100 I would rather spend elsewhere. Your new aluminum radiator should help along with some more correct F/A ratios. If you drop compression, your new camshaft will no longer be optimized and idle will suffer.

    Good to hear from you again
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2017
  18. J.K.

    J.K. Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2016
    First run of the season today. Not sure if i fixed my lean off idle stumble but it is much better. Colder plugs and lower coolant temps alone just not quite enough. I still have some 94 octane with ethanol in the tank (which I'm told the ethanol will actually create heat that I don't want). Only other non ethanol pump fuel available to me is 91. Off idle lean out was worse though with 91 octane. Might try 91 with some decent race blend fuel. I find off idle throttle blips to be a bit lazy too.
     
  19. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    "The EZ EFI 2.0 ECU timing on it worked out to 24 degrees mechanical and 6 degrees vacuum for a total of 30 for pump regular"

    I dropped 2 more degrees off vacuum timing after spotting some very light splash deposits on two plugs after some full throttle runs. The truck runs great but only gets 12.5 mpg running the air conditioning - just the price of having 400 horsepower. Everything about my plugs shows a perfect tune, but I also have a very slight "burble" as I throttle very slowly from idle to just off idle in park. I'm sure that is just due to the cam overlap, and it really isn't noticeable when driving with the 2500 stall speed converter. It's only during the transition from idle, and can only be found when out of gear.
     
  20. J.K.

    J.K. Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2016
    Gonna start with a fresh mind and another tune. Remember my set up...383 stroker with 10.2:1 compression with aluminum heads. AFR 195 heads to be exact. XFI 292 cam, ngk race plugs heat range 9. Idle timing currently at 15, total 32 all in by 3400rpm. I've done not much or any full throttle runs yet, just highway cruising. So the attached plug pictures are not full throttle runs which I realize is the way it's usually checked. Hoping these pics tell you something about the cruise tune. Idle fuel is 13.2 and cruise responds quite favorably at 13.5 right now. It was 13.8 before and I'm positive I hear an odd misfiring exhaust note at that. 13.5 it's much less and actually responds to light throttle movements really well. Question is do I have enough base timing? And what if anything do these plug pics tell you about this current tune. Again this is not wot pulls.
     

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