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EZ-EFI - worked yesterday, not today

Discussion in 'FAST Support Forum' started by Tony B., Aug 5, 2013.

  1. Tony B.

    Tony B. Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2013
    Location:
    Calgary, AB
    I need input from people who have had this sort of problem.
    EZ-EFI system WAS working properly, then suddenly goes to hell.

    This seems to indicate to me that there was nothing wrong with the installation
    - you wouldn't have gotten out of the garage to start with - right?

    Did you finally FIX the problem and what was it? In short, what "broke"?

    With my install (a 2-injector Jeep kit), everything went pretty much “textbook” with installation and Initial Start. After the handheld settings, it made it all the way through the Setup procedure, warming of engine, setting the throttle blades, recalibrating the TPS etc. I made it right up to the “Setup Complete - Drive so it can Learn” part of the procedure.

    I hit the streets, impressed with how it felt right out of the garage – very promising – with a big smile. Everything is working as I had read about by those people who had no issues.

    I get 5 BLOCKS AWAY, the engine stops responding to throttle, starts chugging and dies on the side of the road. Could not restart engine. I get towed home.

    Engine was flooded to the point where I had to change the oil before trying again. Another Reset and Restart. Rich and flooding right off the bat and fouling of spark plugs in minutes. As per Tech’s request, I recheck every aspect of the installation, check harness, all the parts, test every sensor of the system and wasted 2 weeks going in circles looking for “interference”.

    FOUND NOTHING – but installed a new MSD module in my HEI distributor anyway to use the module’s Tach output and do away with the RPM module (FAST includes it but basically tells you to avoid using it if possible, recommending MSD products instead).

    This module provides a 12 volt square wave, 20° tachometer signal that will trigger most tachometers - and is exactly what the EZ-EFI requires. The MSD module didn’t make any difference at all when we tried going through the Setup procedure again. Still flooding

    But we did observe that the ECU has the injectors shooting fuel like a firehose even while cranking the engine. I tried an experiment by selecting “Other” under system and discovered something interesting if I lie to the system and tell it I have 2 – 200# injectors @ 65psi fuel pressure (reality is 2 - 88# @ 43psi).

    With these BS settings IT RUNS AS IT SHOULD.
    IRMs are 00 – as in Zero-Zero.
    All other "Live Data" reads what it should be.

    This is the closest it gets to running properly as it initially did.

    ECU and everything had been RMA’d back to FAST for testing and got "good news". :mad:

    There was nothing wrong with the ECU, handheld, communication cable, O2 sensor and throttle body.
    Even the injectors tested fine on the flow bench. (I didn't send the harness - maybe the problem?)

    So it appears, I may fall into that category where "there's nothing wrong - but your car won't run right."

    I'm wondering what changed during my 5 block drive :confused:

    It certainly didn't rearrange the location of the wiring harness.
    Or add an new electrical component to cause interference.
    Maybe a short in the harness? (of course, the one thing NOT sent to FAST for checking).

    Maybe I'll just have tell it I have 2 – 200# injectors @ 65psi fuel pressure.
    It seems more than happy to run that way. :(

    I do see that everyone who does manage to solve a problem is happy in the end.
    I WANT TO BE ONE OF THEM.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 12, 2013
  2. Frankenbean

    Frankenbean Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2011
    How is the fuel system set up? What's the filtration?
     
  3. Tony B.

    Tony B. Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2013
    Location:
    Calgary, AB

    In-tank pump with sock (tank is clean). Also installed new in-line high flow FI filter for this application before fuel rail.

    Using a FAST fuel pressure regulator with return. As stated - 43psi as per instructions, powered on with engine off (no vacuum).

    Of course, I have to LIE to ECU and tell it I have 200# injectors @ 65psi to have it run.
    The engine initially ran fine without these lies. Have 2 - 88# injectors @ 43psi.

    What are you getting at? Do you think the return line may be blocked or regulator has crapped out?

    PS - I'm not having a heat problem as Dart67 is in his thread.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 28, 2013
  4. mattparliament

    mattparliament Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
    any chance at all of an exhaust leak before your O2 sensor? Could possibly make the ecu read lean and its adding fuel to accomodate? Just brainstorming...

    I had to remove the air pump system off my old rig for that reason...
     
  5. Msracing89

    Msracing89 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2011
    Is this by chance happening when get to the 140º mark and then goes to closed loop? If so I would be looking really hard at the O2 sensor and whether or not your harness is getting a good signal to it. Pull it and see if it is heating up with KEY ON.

    By telling the system you have (2) injectors, it might be calling bullshit on you and going back to open loop and running on the pre-set parameters built in the ECU. Thus no closed loop and no learning.
     
  6. Tony B.

    Tony B. Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2013
    Location:
    Calgary, AB
    Yup. In spite of a pinhole it did make it through Initial Setup/Start/Drive. Idle was a bit rough, but I attributed it to the big valves/cam at the time. It still ran/drove "not bad" until it choked.

    After fixing the exhaust and absolutely no leaks now, it made no difference. The system was flooding my engine, running the injectors at 100%, then sending me an error code (Injector Duty Cycle error) that "it needs even more" - while raw gas drips out the tailpipes.

    Only way it runs is if I LIE to it as stated above.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2013
  7. Tony B.

    Tony B. Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2013
    Location:
    Calgary, AB

    Well, I have to lie to the system before it's even started, so it wouldn't be "closed loop" - right?

    It IS a 2-injector Jeep kit - it would default to that anyway if I selected EZ-EFI Jeep.

    If I read the instructions right, it wouldn't learn until engine has reached normal operating procedures.
    So it just floods until then???
     
  8. Tony B.

    Tony B. Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2013
    Location:
    Calgary, AB
    Thanks for the ideas guys.

    I'm really scratching my head on this one. Checking all the "mechanical" aspects was easy and has been done, so the Tech is listing this as an "interference" problem.

    One which I didn't have to start with, but came out of thin air as I drove the car. :confused:

    Unfortunately, I don't have an "interference gauge/meter" to check for this.
    So searching for "interference" is about as successful as SETI searching for "another earth".

    I have seen a couple of posts where people were having a problem, sent everything back for testing, there was "nothing wrong with system", got it all back, reinstalled it AND the problem was miraculously fixed!! Maybe the ECU just needed to go on a ride? ;)

    Got my fingers crossed for when I get my junk back. ;)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2013
  9. Tony B.

    Tony B. Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2013
    Location:
    Calgary, AB
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2013
  10. Webby

    Webby Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2009
    Location:
    Southampton UK
    can you tell us what your handheld says for actual a/f v target and what the correction figure is?
     
  11. Tony B.

    Tony B. Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2013
    Location:
    Calgary, AB

    Not right now. Still waiting to get the system back from FAST, and will have to reinstall it.

    After doing more reading, I think there is a possibility that my FAST fuel pressure regulator may be at fault.
    May be a leaking diaphram allowing gas to be sucked up through the vacuum line?

    It fits the symptoms:
    - fast failure (happened "just like that" while driving)
    - loads of gas into the engine
    - ECU has almost no control

    That will be the first thing I check when I get back to work on it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2013
  12. Tony B.

    Tony B. Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2013
    Location:
    Calgary, AB

    Yes. It was the MSD HEAT HEI Module Part No. 83647
    I preferred using this over an MSD ignition box - has the same tach signal output.

    When the EZ-EFI doesn't work properly, you usually get 3 possible causes given
    (right after "you didn't install it right").
    1. RPM signal isn't good
    2. O2 sensor is bad
    3. "interference"

    I thought I'd fix the "possible" RPM problem with the module. It didn't make any difference,
    as it ran exactly the same as with the RPM module included in the kit.

    Also bought a new O2 sensor - that also didn't make any difference.

    I have IRMs of 00. That seems to indicate I do not have "interference".
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2013
  13. gunther19820

    gunther19820 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2012
    I am interested to see what you find with the regulator. You and I have some very common symptoms.

    I am going to test my pump now, after looking at your post. If my regulator gauge is reading "X" psi, but is delivering "Y", then I certainly have an issue there.
     
  14. gremlinmt

    gremlinmt Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2013
    To find out if the problem is once it goes into 'learn mode' unplug the temp sensor and see how it runs.

    Some exhaust studs extend into the water jacket, this shows up just like an exhaust leak.

    Plug the vac port, you only need it at full throttle anyway and sometimes not even then.

    You still haven't posted your A/F targets, maybe they are stupid rich or even invalid numbers.
     
  15. Tony B.

    Tony B. Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2013
    Location:
    Calgary, AB

    Floods - can't make it to "Learn Mode".

    Don't have exhaust studs into water jacket on my engine.

    Need my system back from FAST to try this.

    A/F targets were left at defaults. Are they no good?


    EDIT: I went through your posts.
    Did you get your fueling sorted out?
    Any specifics on what was hindering your system?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2013
  16. gunther19820

    gunther19820 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2012
    what would unplugging the temp sensor do for the system?
     
  17. Webby

    Webby Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2009
    Location:
    Southampton UK
    seems quite possible. If reg diaphragm is split then fuel will be being pumped into throttle body! It would as you say explain the sudden failure.
    I also fail to see what unplugging the temp sensor would do.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2013
  18. gremlinmt

    gremlinmt Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2013
    Fast system goes into 'limp mode'. Open loop, no O2 correction, straight table.
     
  19. gunther19820

    gunther19820 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2012
    but doesnt "limp mode" limit other parameters, hence the "limp"?

    I'm not questioning you, I am very curious...
     
  20. gremlinmt

    gremlinmt Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2013
    Well, if you're really curious, give it a shot. :)
     

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