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New Crate Hemi does not start?

Discussion in 'FAST Support Forum' started by RylisPro, May 27, 2015.

  1. RylisPro

    RylisPro New Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2015
    That's cool no worries, I really do appreciate the help! I am just at a loss of why I still can't get this engine started?

    I did find that one of my vacuum caps fell off the back of the intake and I sealed that right up but still the same no start.

    I am seeing that the CamSync BTDC is all over the place and is never consistent.
    I have checked voltage to the Cam sensor wires to the sensor and it is 4.95 volts. I have routed the alternator charging wire away from the Cam sensor wires as well. I can only physically isolate the Cam and Crank sensor wiring as they are only so long on the XIM harness as that is still unmodified.

    I understand that 90% of these problems is user installation error but I am at a loss to what I have done wrong? I even sampled the fuel to see if I have any water in the tank and that checks out okay.

    I am still waiting on a new Cam sensor from the dealer and will see if that will start the engine?
    [​IMG]
     
  2. TurboNova

    TurboNova Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Location:
    Lake Havasu City AZ.. but mostly travel tuning
    If the CAM Sync BDTC is all over the place then that is your issue. The XIM needs to see a good cam event 2 times for it to try and start properly. The big things are the coils and plug wires on that engine. zip tie them out of the way for now and anything else that might be causing noise then you can put them back one at a time. Did you upgrade your XIM?
     
  3. RylisPro

    RylisPro New Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2015
    Yes the XIM is now 21B.

    Is there a way to properly physically shield the Cam wire itself?

    I have routed the Cam and Crank wires away from any and all other wiring as best I could but I can only go so far as the wiring harness is still unmodified.
    Maybe if I shield the wires themselves back to the XIM box it will work?
    [​IMG]
     
  4. TurboNova

    TurboNova Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Location:
    Lake Havasu City AZ.. but mostly travel tuning
    The shielded wire has a bare drain wire that gets shielded to the head or block. Don't stack it with any other ground wire.
     
  5. RylisPro

    RylisPro New Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2015
    Ok I ended up taking the XIM harness and mummifying the crank and cam sensor wiring portion with aluminum foil. I then added a bare copper drain wire that runs all the way from the XIM box to the ends of the crank and cam sensor pigtail. All of that is wrapped tight with electrical tape
    [​IMG]
    I am also going to see if I can run the cam sensor wire underneath the intake which should isolate it away from the coils.

    I added an eyelet to drain wire on the cam sensor end to ground to the head, do I need to do the same thing to the crank? I forget if you only need to ground one end on a Faraday cage?

    Thanks
    [​IMG]
     
  6. RylisPro

    RylisPro New Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2015
    Same FUCKING result CAM BTDc will not stay steady I sick og this *Banned**Banned**Banned**Banned*

    Cam and a crank wires are shielded and grounded to the *Banned**Banned**Banned**Banned* head. I ran the crank wire under the intake and got a brand new cam sensor from dealer

    Will not start.

    Anyone else have any ideas?
    Better yet anyone know of a someone that has setup a FAST system on a Hemi in my area? Northern California East Bay Area

    Thanks
    Sorry just really frustrated
     
  7. pbp1

    pbp1 Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    It may not be a noise issue. The cam sensor trigger wheel may be physically moving around. The real question is what changed from the time Arrow racing ran this engine and now? Is there a possibility that this engine is equipped with a variable valve timing set? If so, the cam phaser must be locked out to prevent any movement in the cam timing.
     
  8. pbp1

    pbp1 Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    I was just given a piece of information that may be relevant here. A trusted customer with a Gen III Hemi shared with me that he had a similar issue and when he dug into it, the issue ended up being that the Cam "Basket" (the reluctor wheel for the cam sensor that is on the front of the cam gear) had become magnetized. He replaced the upper cam gear with one that he verified was not magnetized and all problems went away. I would find a screwdriver or other long skinny piece of steel, make sure that that screwdriver or piece of steel is not magnetized, remove the cam sensor and touch the cam basket with the steel and see if it is magnetized.
     
  9. RylisPro

    RylisPro New Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2015
    Thanks for the help!
    I got one of my thin long allen hex keys and tossed it at the refrigerator, it dropped to the floor. I then took out the cam sensor and stuck the hex key inside and nothing felt magnetic.

    The only thing I did to the engine was replace the fuel rails and added a remote oil filter adapter.
    I did also replace the plug on the water pump with a temp sensor that controls my electric fans, but every time I have tried to start the engine the only other thing I power on is the fuel pump.

    I pulled my XFI & XIM box and sent them to FAST to be ruled out. I am sure they are working fine and just wanted to be sure.
    It also gives me some time to cool off and not stress out about my stupid car...
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Erizner

    Erizner New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2016
    RylisPro, did you ever get this thing running? I'm havin similar issues on a 2014 Challenger motor.
     
  11. RylisPro

    RylisPro New Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2015
    Yeah I got it running eventually! Turns out when I bought a crank sensor from the dealer the parts guy gave me the wrong one.
    [​IMG]
    There is a green O ring sensor which is for the 60-2 reluctor wheel and a pink O ring sensor for the 36+2+2 reluctor wheel which I needed. With the wrong sensor there was no sync and no start.

    Car runs great and makes 515hp to the wheels. Scary fast!
    [​IMG]
     
  12. bkbridges

    bkbridges Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Location:
    socal
    Sweet! A happy ending.
     
  13. Diego Garcia

    Diego Garcia New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Hi, I'm writing you because I've a similar issue in my Charger 70 with a 426 HEMI GEN III, Fast XFI + XIM. The engine starts but dies after a couple of seconds. Researching about this issue, we arrived to the conclusion that maybe the sensor doesn't belong to the engine crank reluctor. I really appreciate if you could send me the CAM sensor Part Number that are using in your application. Additionally, do you have any documentation about the engine specificatios (manuals, etc.). Thanks a lot for your support, I'm from Argentina and adding the lack of local knowledge and support to the few installations of this type of engines, I don't have very much options. Thanks in advance.
     
  14. Erizner

    Erizner New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2016
    So here is the big part that got me. There are actually 3 different crank reluctor wheels as of today. I'm sure Dodge will add a forth someday. :( There is the 36+2+2 that was in the 2003-2008. Then 2009-2012 they introduced the 60-2 reluctor wheel with sensor 5149230AA. 2013 to present they are still using the 60-2 reluctor wheel but with some slight modifications. Mainly it is using sensor 68140678AB that reads the front edge as well as the trailing edge of the tooth. The good news is that the 2013 to present reluctor wheel will also work with the 2009-2012 sensor. The Fast XFI + XIM wants to see pulses from the 2009-2012 sensor. It will not work with the newer sensors. Mine wouldn't even fire. Also make sure you have the cam lockout installed if the motor was initially a variable cam before. These were the sensors needed on a 5.7L. Hopefully this gets you further down the correct path.
     
  15. Diego Garcia

    Diego Garcia New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Thanks a lot for your quick answer, I really appreciate it. Apparently I have the correct sensors 5149230AA. Do you remember what CRANK REFERENCE ANGLE used when configured the XFI trought C-Com? Thanks again!
     

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