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Please help setting parameters EZ Efi Multiport 2.0

Discussion in 'FAST Support Forum' started by chevy468ci, Oct 3, 2017.

  1. chevy468ci

    chevy468ci New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2016
    I have the EZ EFI multiport kit on a 496 big block. The car is up and running fairly well but i have some hesitations off idle and under 2000rpm, after that the car takes off like a wild ape. I'd like to tune the parameters so everything is a little more smooth and i get the most out of the set up and power.

    the set up:


    Automatic transmission, 3000 stall
    EZ efi 2.0 multiport kit, 60lbs injectors
    Chevy 496 big block
    10:1 compression
    Blue print aluminum cylinder heads 119cc combustion chamber, 316 intake runners, 2.3" intake valve, 1.88 ex
    dual sync distributor
    comp camps hydraulic roller cam .566/.566, 242/248 @ .5 112LSA

    currently i have the idle set to 900. Base timing 18* , 36* all in at 3400. Idle trim is +5, vacuum advance +6 @ 60%

    afr targets 13.5 idle, 13.5 curise. 12.7 wot.

    I'm new to FI and these are the numbers a friend of mine suggested to try and it helped a little but i feel like i could still get more performance from this set up. all help is much appreciated. Thank you
     
  2. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Try this - Base timing 22 degrees, 36 all-in @ 4000. vacuum advance 7 degrees @45%. A/F 14.0 idle, cruise A/F 14.5. Leave the WOT at 12.7, and the idle trim at +5, alone.

    These settings should allow a 750 idle to be set with IAC at 20 idling, MAP about 60-65 or lower. A lower MAP at idle will work better - lower MAP = higher idle vacuum

    EZ EFI needs an idle vacuum of at least 10 inches and higher to perform correctly.

    If your engine doesn't meet the at least 10 inches of idle vacuum requirement, you'll need a Sportsman ECU upgrade.
     
  3. chevy468ci

    chevy468ci New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2016
    Thank you for taking time to respond AA.

    Currently my map reads around 70-77 fluctuating in between. is 750rpm doable with this cam? And will i get enough voltage to charge the battery at such a low rpm? i have a march performance underdrive kit so i might be ok.

    I'll get a vacuum gauge and see what im pulling for vacuum. I have power breaks but i use a vacuum pump on the booster to let the engine do its thing.
    I like the way this cam is but when the engine builder recomended this cam, i didnt realize it was a marine cam and doesnt have as much chop as id like. Id like to get a bigger, more choppy cam but i know that will entail an ecu upgrade which i plan on doing eventually.
     
  4. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Every engine design/installation performs differently when it comes to idle vacuum. Your cam may work, and is a needed good match for your engine compression. At 10:1 you could have used a cam with about 236 duration @ .050 with a lobe separation of 112-114 to increase vacuum, but fuel and timing constraints would make tuning harder. A MAP of 70-77 indicates your vacuum is below the 10 inch vacuum requirement of the EZ EFI ECU. A MAP of 65 is the "limp home mode" for EZ EFI.

    The timing and AF settings I gave you may improve your current MAP. Use a vacuum gauge to find the highest steady vacuum at idle while increasing the initial timing. The highest initial timing, the engine likes, will also improve vacuum. If these setting don't help get the MAP at or below 65, you'll need the XFI Sportsman ECU upgrade. XFI Sportsman and XFI 2.0 don't have this 10 inch idle vacuum requirement.

    If it turns out you need the XFI Sportsman upgrade, as I expect, it is a direct plug in to the EZ EFI 2.0 harness. I recommend contacting and purchase from fastmanefi.com (Richard on this forum). He supplies excellent tech support with everything he sells, and will pre-install a tune to the Sportsman ECU for your engine - at no added cost.
     
  5. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    A larger "choppier" cam will further lower vacuum. Your current cam has you in the best power range for a 3000 stall.
     
  6. chevy468ci

    chevy468ci New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2016
    Alright, I'm out of work in a few hours and actually drove the car here today, I'll punch these numbers in. Do i need the car to be warmed up for the best map reading? and as far as increasing initial timing, will i be increasing it from the timing screen or the idle vacuum timing advance screen?

    I have a feeling you're correct and i will need to upgrade the computer eventually, probably over winter. I'm clearly new to EFI. Id like to upgrade to something where I'm not at complete loss of what to do and can learn on. Is the sportsman a little easier to use than the XFI? The fact its a plug and play with my harness is a huge bonus.
     
  7. chevy468ci

    chevy468ci New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2016
    And that's great Richard does that. I'll go through him for the upgrade.
     
  8. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Sportsman offers a few less features than XFI 2.0. So, yes, it is a little easier to set up. Both require using a computer, but the learning curve isn't that difficult. The main point is they overcome any problems you can encounter with the EZ systems.

    Yes, the engine should be above 140 degrees, and at normal running temp when reading the MAP and making changes. Increase the initial timing using the Advanced ignition timing screen. Be sure to set slope to 36 degrees all-in @ 4000, and get the vacuum load threshold at 45%. These are ballpark timing figures that won't cause any problem. Be sure to also reset the IAC and TPC after these changes, and any change in idle speed. Do all changes in the Advanced screen. You shouldn't need to do a Wizard reset unless your current fuel maps are too far off.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
  9. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Leaning the AF and raising the initial will also lower engine heat in the headers - preventing plug wire and boot destruction from excessive heat.
     
  10. chevy468ci

    chevy468ci New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2016
    , i tried setting idle to 750 per your advice but even with my underdrive pulleys, i was only getting a 12.7-12.9 voltage. at 850 i get a consistent 13.8-14 volts. I'm trying to upload a picture of the master screen but the file is too big so i'll provide all the data as it shows in order from left to right, top to bottom. These are the readings at 750, i increased it to 850 after with minimal changes in readings besides the voltage being better. Does anything look off besides the map? it looks like i will need to get the upgrade but until then..

    AFR 14.0 Target AFR 14.0 02 COR% -3 IAC 20 RPM 750
    Coolant Temp 177 Air Temp 123 Map 79/80 Load 81 TPS% 0
    Fuel PSI 43 FP DC% 100 Inj DC% .7 lb/hr 02 TPS volts .6
    Battery 14 Base timing 22 Idle adv 0 vacuum adv 0 Total timing 22
     
  11. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    For now, it looks good for what it is. Be sure to check for any errors or codes before you turn off the ignition. You'll need a different pulley on the alternator to get good charging at that 750 idle. Just work with 800-850 now - that will also keep the MAP lower. Eventually, you'll need a smaller alternator pulley. I had a 12Si 150 amp on one vehicle, and it wasn't enough at full electrical load for that one - even with the correct pulley. I replaced it with a 200 amp CS 144 and solved that issue. The Powermaster site has a chart that can help you determine the correct pulley size. You don't want to over RPM the alternator at high crankshaft speeds.

    You need to use a vacuum gauge to increase the initial timing to optimum. You can probably bump that up to 24 degrees even not using a vacuum gauge, and still not adversely affect steady idle vacuum. With your cam, the engine may even like more initial timing. You'll want O2% correction hovering close to 0% at warm idle, as your tune improves. -3 doesn't look bad for now. Try bumping idle A/F to 14.1 and check the O2% with the engine fully warm at idle.

    Right now, a picture of all your sparkplug firing ends would be helpful. You could have a variety of things going on there affecting the MAP.at idle. Higher idle MAP equals lower engine vacuum.
     
  12. chevy468ci

    chevy468ci New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2016
    Noted on the alternator/pulley situation. I dont even have a radio/speaker set up in the vehicle at this time. the more electronics I add the more crucial id imagine having a higher amperage alternator.

    As far as 02 correction, it was hovering between 0 to -3. none of the readings seem to hold a steady number without going up or down 1 to 3 readings.

    I'll get a vacuum gauge today or tomorrow. My problem is i dont have any vacuum ports on the intake manifold. I'm using the intake provided from fast with the multiport kit. I have my pcv running to the back of a spacer under the throttle body and the vacuum port thats on the tb i have tied to my map sensor and the only other small vacuum port is going to the fuel pressure regulator, that port is also on the tb. Can i just T in the vacuum gauge with the PCV?

    You are correct about my cam, sinve ive changed it to 22 initial, the hesitation under 2k rpm is gone. So As far as adding even more initial timing, what am i looking for exactly to choose the best initial timing? keep adding initial until i reach the highest vacuum reading and when it starts decreasing again back off? And im assuming leave the idle advance alone, trim alone at 5 and at 45%.

    I'll get pictures of the plugs asap.
     
  13. chevy468ci

    chevy468ci New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2016
    I spoke to Rich by the way, We're going ahead with the upgrade in a few weeks for the computer.
     
  14. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014

    "As far as 02 correction, it was hovering between 0 to -3. none of the readings seem to hold a steady number without going up or down 1 to 3 readings."
    - This sounds normal, 14.1 should be dead on - if your plugs are good to go.

    "Can i just T in the vacuum gauge with the PCV?"
    Yes

    "So As far as adding even more initial timing, what am i looking for exactly to choose the best initial timing? keep adding initial until i reach the highest vacuum reading and when it starts decreasing again back off? No, keep adding initial until the vacuum needle begins getting erratic, then back off two degrees.

    "And im assuming leave the idle advance alone, trim alone at 5 and at 45%." Yes

    Be sure slope all-in is 4000 @ 36 degrees. You may need to lower the total all-in degrees depending on your fuel. You'll know more once the sparkplugs are read.

    This should help and prevent any adverse wear until you get the Sportsman installed. Some of the changes could even help with the Sportsman install. You'll be able to get a much better tune using the Sportsman. You've made a good choice, and Rich will help you get the Sportsman right. You might like to go ahead and download the Sportsman software and start examining it. It has a lot of settings to explore, and becoming familiar with them will help you.

    https://www.fuelairspark.com/software/FAST/CComWP_XFI_Sportsman_Installer_081817.zip
     
  15. chevy468ci

    chevy468ci New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2016
    Great thank you AA.

    I'll tell you now the car is running phenomenal in comparison to what it was before taking your advice. No hiccups, no hesitations, my dead spot between 1500-2000 is gone and it even sounds more crisp.
    I'm going to go ahead and bump the AFR to 14.1. I wont have a vacuum gauge until tomorrow and ill give it a shot then. I did verify my timing is at 36 all in by 4000. I'll pull the plugs at the time i get the vacuum gauge. FYI i only run 93 gas.

    Rich actually called me yesterday and we had a good conversation in terms of tuning and the possibilities of getting more power out of this build. Thank you for your help AA. I'm sure i'll be back to bug you again in the next few days.
     
  16. chevy468ci

    chevy468ci New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2016
    Once I pulls the plugs I'd like to put new ones in. What gap do you recommend?
     
  17. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Need to see the plugs to determine what heat range is needed. One range colder than the factory recommended plug is usually best. This also requires the plugs to have been torqued properly for correct heat transfer. It's best to run the gap that came installed by the plug manufacturer. I use NGK - which also require no anti-seize. Anti-seize can cause firing problems. You also need to use plug wires that are rated 40 Ohms per foot. This is usually a spiral wound performance type like MSD Pro Super Conductor. Anything with more Ohms per foot will give inconsistent firing problems.

    NGK offers different styles with several different gaps. For a street engine running pump gas, you need an extended tip type plug.
     
  18. chevy468ci

    chevy468ci New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2016
    Alright, I'm going to pull the plugs Saturday and see what we got. As far as wires, I'm using Taylor 409 series I believe spiral wound 10.4 mm wires. As far as plugs, I've been using Champion 792 which I need that depth for my heads. I'm open to trying ngk
     
  19. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Taylor makes good wires, but I believe those are 350 Ohms per foot. The Taylor ThunderVolt S-50 Universal Spark Plug Wires are 10.5 mm, and are 40 Ohm per foot - they would be the wires to use in Taylor 10.5 mm. The ThunderVolt wires should prevent any EMI interference working against your ECU, and will fire your plugs much better.

    Champion 792 - that's a very cold, projected tip, non-resistor, race plug. FAST really doesn't want non-resistor plugs used with their ECU systems, and this plug is likely too cold for any continued street operation. Although, they will sometimes work a while before eventually fouling in street use. The cold range race plugs are really only designed for race use.

    BKR6E/6962 should be the correct NGK plug for you to start with - it's NGK heat range 6 (I believe it's one range colder than stock for your engine, and has the correct depth, and thread) The BKR series are 5/8 socket, gasket seat, projected tip, and gapped .031". The .031" gap will work nicely in any 10:1 compression street engine. A call to NGK will confirm if I'm correct on the factory heat range - I believe BKR5E is the stock heat range for your rat engine. BKR7E would be the next range colder than BKR6E. (Don't let NGK talk you into using the factory heat range - go one range colder than stock) These are copper V-Power plugs, of lower cost, and work very well for the street (O'Reilly's usually has the lowest price on them). I actually run the BKR6E plugs in my 406 mouse block (9.5:1 compression, COMP XE282HR) making just over 500 HP in a 1985 TA.

    Don't use any exotic metal sparkplugs. They don't work well in these applications. A standard design plug works best.
     
  20. chevy468ci

    chevy468ci New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2016
    Dude, Who are you? lmao You're the FAST Jesus.

    I was under the hood adjusting my TV cable yesterday and did take a look. I have the thunder series taylor wires. I thought i had bought the 409 series but they upsold me based on mentioning i had efi.
    Funny you mention they foul fast, I change them out about 3-4 times a year.

    Are you using the heat range 6 on the street? I always run copper. I only used the champion plugs based off the email my head shop sent me. I'll let them worry about heads, I'll take your word on plugs and performance.

    What color TA? I love that year. I'm running this set up in a 1987 monte carlo SS.

    On a side note, which efi system are you running? No one makes geometry corrector for my throttle body which is the fast/accufab one. I had a local engineer make a bracket for me which corrected the geometry and using the second hole from the top for the throttle cable, i dont get wide open throttle when i mash the pedal to the floor hence i havent set proper line pressure for the TV cable (200r4 transmission). I set the TV cable manually so the line pressures are correct but this isnt the best way to do it or the safest. I tried putting the throttle cable on the lowest hole on the linkage and it appears as if i have full WOT mashing the pedal now. It was almost midnight when i finished so i didnt fire the car up to check where that put me for line pressure.
     

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