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Please help setting parameters EZ Efi Multiport 2.0

Discussion in 'FAST Support Forum' started by chevy468ci, Oct 3, 2017.

  1. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Lol, I'm just an old guy who began building racers in the '60s.

    Glad you have the correct wires. That keeps down the list of problems that can occur.

    Yes, I use the BKR6E plugs on the street. They burn clean and last very well, even with lead foot driving, as long as the timing and F/A is correctly set. I tuned for 86 octane pump gas and have no problem with them. But, I sometimes bump the ECU settings and run higher octane.

    The TA is a House of Kolor Shimrin dark cherry color. It was originally a factory cinnamon color. The '87 SS is also one I like. I once had a brand new white '86 LS Monte Carlo - same SS front-end from the factory (great car). I would still have it, but it was completely totaled in a wreck.

    I'm running EZ EFI 2.0 throttle body systems in two vehicles. Plan to use XFI systems on some more cars in my collection.
    The Turbo 200R4 is a great transmission when built for the pressure of high horsepower and torque. My '86 LS came with the 200R4, and I kept it. I had it built by Fairbanks years ago, and have a customized '56 Buick Special it is going into. The car looks like one Broderick Crawford drove in Highway Patrol - definitely not grandpa's Buick with its 468 horsepower mouse motor.
    Sounds like you got the TV set right. But, I haven't used that throttle body.
     
  2. chevy468ci

    chevy468ci New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2016
    Thats awesome man. I just ordered a set of these plugs for tomorrow, ill pull the plugs this weekend and get some pictures.

    Thats an awesome color for that car. I love these cars and the G bodies, if i could i would have had a grand national but i scored this monte for a great deal and it was in a garage for 20+ years.

    I know you said NGK dont require the anti seize, but I have aluminum heads. is that still the case?
     
  3. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Yes, the TA looks good enough to eat. It also has a new black and graphite gray leather interior. All power - widows, mirrors, seats, custom 1400 RMS watt stereo system, and a built Turbo 400. I loaded it with all the suspension goodies as well. If I left anything out in the build, it hasn't been made for a TA.

    Correct, anti-seize shouldn't be used with NGK plugs - not even with aluminum heads. Just be sure to use the correct torque on them. Be sure to clean any left over anti-seize from the heads - brake cleaner works well. Just don't flush anything into the cylinders when cleaning. Use a small brush or cloth.
     
  4. chevy468ci

    chevy468ci New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2016
    Do you have any pictures somewhere online ? id love to see this thing!

    Mine is currently flat black, im working out all the drivetrain before getting it ready for paint.

    Ok, noted. I was going to do that already. I'm pretty OCD about making sure things are done the best they could be, especially when it comes to my build. If i run rich too long i change the oil in fear of washing out the cylinders. Its excessive but the car's my baby.
     
  5. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    No, I haven't posted any pictures anywhere. I did once post a picture here of the engine bay before it was finished. I may do a video of it one day.

    As long as it runs too rich, the cylinders are being washed. Changing the oil just helps prevent other and more serious cumulative damage.
     
  6. chevy468ci

    chevy468ci New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2016
    So i have the pictures of the plugs at home i'll post later but i drove the car today to work to see how everything went. I changed the plugs and left the gap alone the way they were, i went with the NGK heat range 6. I went through the set up wizard to clear any old errors or bad maps. It started off fine but i have this new problem

    under partial/light throttle, as i approach 2000 rpm its like it hits a wall and then the car surges two or 3 more times then it clears through. I looked for whats changing and while thats happening, the AFR shoots up to 15.9 before richening back up and then it will accelerate smoothly. I double checked the afr targets and thy are 14.1, 14.5, and 12.7 idle, cruise, wot.

    however, when i hard accelerate, not wot, it will not hit that wall and it will push through without leaning out. Could it be the TPS on its way out ? what else could it be?

    Thank you
     
  7. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Check the fuel pressure is at 43 PSI and the fulltime manifold vacuum to the regulator is connected. Run the engine and check for any errors or IRM counts before turning the key off. Did you put the timing and slope back where it was after the Wizard reset? Those default Wizard timing figures won't work with your engine - and will quickly ruin your new plugs.
     
  8. chevy468ci

    chevy468ci New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2016
    fuel pressure is at 43 psi and vacuum is connected. I ran the setup wizard and tried to get it to idle asap while i verified timing to be locked at 20, once that was locked it ran rich for about a minute or two until i adjusted the IAC and it was nice and smooth. as soon as i did that i changed the timing, afr, vacuum advance at 45% etc we talked about. The car ran a little stumble like at first and then started the learning process. driving it to work today it just got worse. Hard acceleration it takes off no issues, light/partial it hits 2000 rpm like someone shut off the throttle for a second then back on a couple of times. I have have a spare TPS sensor, the correct one at home i was going to try out to see if it changes anything. Changing the plugs was the only mechanical change i did on the car. The only other thing i could think of was the valves. All i did was check the valve adjustments. i did the exhaust open, intake closed method. Once the exhaust started to open i adjusted the intake, once the intake started to open i did the exhaust. I dont have any back firing or any popping so i thought all is well. the only thing i can think of which i thought was really a myth was having to adjust the valves in the firing order but its not a fresh build.
     
  9. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Also, check the IAC is at 20 idling and reset the TPS. Sometimes it is difficult to get the TPS set. What is the idle MAP now?
     
  10. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    You could have gotten some valves too tight due to bleed down at the lifters. It's better to adjust the valves on a broken in hydraulic engine with it running. (open till slight clatter then tighten 1/2 turn)
     
  11. chevy468ci

    chevy468ci New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2016
    at 800 rpm idle, iac is around 15-25. mostly 15-20. map 70-75.

    as far as the valves, is it important to do them in the firing order?

    when i adjusted them, i adjusted them on cylinder at a time. When the intake started to open, i adjusted the exhaust. once the exhaust was closed, as soon as the intake started to open, i adjusted the exhaust. Are you supposed to let the intake fully open so the exhaust is on the bottom of the circle to adjust? would that cause surging?
     
  12. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Some noise is normal due to ramp profile. adjust the valves with the engine running. It won't matter where you start.

    If you must adjust without the engine running, you don't have to start with any cylinder first - that just allows you to turn the crank less during adjustment. Just be sure to find the lowest point on the lobe for the valve being adjusted. Get slack in the pushrod, then just remove the slack and add 1/2 turn. It can take a very gentle feel for slack as the lifter will often have bled down some.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
  13. chevy468ci

    chevy468ci New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2016
    I replaced the map sensor and tps with no avail. I'll have to re adjust the valves tomorrow and go from there. If it ran awfully rich during the set up wizard, how fast could have the plugs been fouled? They're cheap enough where I can get a new set
     
  14. chevy468ci

    chevy468ci New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2016
    My key on engine off readings


    Afr 15 afr target 14.1 02 correct 0% iac 90 rpm
    coolant 200 air temp 148 map 106 load 99 tps
    Fuel psi 0 fpdc 0% inj 0% lb/hr 0tps .6 volt
    Battery 12.5 base timing 22, idle adv 0, vac adv0 total timing 22
     
  15. chevy468ci

    chevy468ci New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2016
    One more note, I noticed the tps % is 17-20 when this is happening. Then and only then as soon. As it cracks 2000 rpms it'll surge a few times then go.

    I've replaced the tps and calibrated it as well as buying a new gm map sensor.

    Considering the only mechanical changes have been the spark plugs and valve adjustment, I'm going to buy one more set of plugs and re adjust the valves. Once the valves are adjusted, I'll go through the setup wizard again, verify that I'm locked in at 20* (which in the setup I had to add +10.5 to line up the 20* on the wheel with the 0 on my timing tab). Once that's been done I'll swap in the new plugs.
     
  16. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Before getting another set of plugs, let's see the plug ends on the cold and the new plugs. I'm fairly confident your valve set caused the problem, but it won't hurt to see what's going on. You could even have a simple air leak in the header. When you run the rack, be very precise to only remove slack without depressing the plunger in the lifter, then only tighten 1/2 turn.

    Be sure to check inside the distributor cap also. Phasing could be off or you could have a burned button/rotor.
     
  17. fabr

    fabr Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2017
    Here is your problem. Lash is set wrong. I copied this from comp cams site. I have always set valves this way. It is fool proof procedure. I have built literally hundreds of engines. This procedure works on all engines.

    Setting Hydraulic Lifter Pre-load (Adjustable Valve Train)

    When installing a hydraulic cam, lifters or rocker arms, establishing the correct lifter pre-load improves both performance and engine life. Insufficient pre-load will create excessive valve train noise and wear. Excessive pre-load will cause rough idling and low manifold vacuum, and can even lead to severe engine damage. With an adjustable valve train, proceed as follows:

    Install the pushrods and rocker arms. Be sure the pushrods are seated correctly in the lifter and rocker arm. Turn the engine over in the direction of rotation until the EXHAUST pushrod just begins to move upward, opening the valve. Now adjust the INTAKE rocker of that cylinder. Carefully tighten the nut on the intake rocker while spinning the pushrod with your fingertips. You will feel a slight resistance in the pushrod when you have taken up all of the clearance. This is “zero lash.” Turn the adjusting nut to the specified pre-load – typically 1/4-3/4 of a turn, but this will vary based on the lifter number.

    Turn the engine in its rotation direction until the intake pushrod comes all the way up and almost all the way back down. Now set the EXHAUST rocker to “zero lash” and add the specified pre-load. Repeat this process for all remaining cylinders.
     
  18. fabr

    fabr Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2017
    Have you correctly reset the valves yet?
     
  19. chevy468ci

    chevy468ci New Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2016
    Yes sir I just did it this morning. I also threw new plugs at it and I've verified all my parameters are what they were prior to the issue. I fired it up to warm it up and calibrate the iac, however halfway into it, we ran out if gas lmao

    We're taking a little break and going back at it shortly.

    I called Howard's cams who made my lifters and their recommendation is 3/4 preload. However, some lifters after 3/4 preload did not give me the same resistance on the nut as others. I called back and they said that's normal. I'm not sure if I'm happy with that answer. I called comp cams and they said the same. I revved the engine while warming up to 4k and had no popping or hesitation so that's a good start although my problem is underpaid. Ill know more in the afternoon.

    One other thing, the top pushrods on this big block are hard to grip in order to check for rotation resistance so I had to get to zero lash by making sure I had no up or down movement with the rocker arm
     
  20. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    3/4 turn is fine. 1/2 turn is mostly used by older racers as it helps alleviate problems due to hydraulic pump-up at higher RPMS. Hydraulic lifter designs are as varied as race classes. Each plunger design provides for different characteristics - from disc designs to ball designs. Just like Rhoads lifters were designed for a better idle while still providing the higher performance provided by higher duration cams.

    Still need to see pictures of those plugs.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017

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