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Rough running EZ EFI 1.0

Discussion in 'FAST Support Forum' started by Yadkin, Aug 23, 2016.

  1. Denis

    Denis Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2009
    Location:
    Mendocino County, Northern Calif
    Sounds like problem solved!!!! Good call on removing the fusible link on the alternator feed. The only way an alternator can short out and cause a problem is for one of the diodes in the rectifier circuit to fail. The good news is that when that happens the diode burns open.
    AA is right about twisting power cables to help reduce interference due to electrical noise. The wires going to the ignition box should be twisted and the wires from the ignition box to the coil should also be twisted. Anyway the problem is solved so all of this is a moot point.
     
  2. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Hi Dennis,

    I believe he only removed the fuse he had installed to the ECU power wire. I would prefer he also remove the one from the alternator output and have a single unbroken wire supplying current from the alternator to the battery connection on the solenoid for a total of only two connection points there. This not only reduces interference intrusion, but also improves amperage and voltage flow. He may still need to do this at some point in the future. In over 40 years, I've never seen an alternator short do more than to create a slight discharge. I've even seen rotors sling windings, and that still didn't cause any cascading electrical system failure. On the other hand, a starter with a slung rotor winding or shorted stator will cause a severe battery fault with the starter engaged and/or the solenoid stuck closed. I don't have any problem with the use of the marine duty Newmar filter.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  3. Yadkin

    Yadkin Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2013
    Location:
    Yadkin Valley, NC
    Yes I only removed the ECU fuse.

    Still tracking down an erratic firing on two of the cylinders, as identified by systematically using a timing light on each plug wire. I purchased some 1/4" diameter braided copper sheath and shielded the twisted pairs from the coil to the distributor and from the coil to the Second Strike box. Each is grounded at one end to a single common ground. This is based on the assumption that the low amperage circuits are more susceptible to IMF. No effect on the symptom.

    I have a new set of plug wires coming sometime (hopefully) this week. OE type Motorcraft. After reading all of the FAQs for Pertronix they recommend this type. That conflicts with what I've read elsewhere, although I can't remember where.
     
  4. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Spiral wound plug wires are best in preventing interference. Those two plug wires could be leaking.
     
  5. Yadkin

    Yadkin Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2013
    Location:
    Yadkin Valley, NC
    I'm on my second set of MSD Street Fire wires. :(
     
  6. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    I use MSD 8.5mm Super Conductor Spark Plug Wire Sets, and build them to stay away from headers and other wiring. I don't believe MSD Street Fire wires were meant for aftermarket high performance ignition boxes. There is a difference of 40 Ohms per foot with Super Conductor, to 500 Ohms per foot with the Street Fire. I've never had a problem with the Super Conductor wires and sometimes use DEI fire sleeving with them.

    A note: I also use MSD Pro-Clamp Wire Separators 8843, but install them using silicone grease to prevent wire cover damage.
     
  7. Yadkin

    Yadkin Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2013
    Location:
    Yadkin Valley, NC
    These Motorcraft Suppression wires are about 4000 Ohms per foot and 7mm thick. The Street fires are wound, about 500 Ohms/ ft. I put the skinny Motorcraft wires in last night, will test drive later today.
     
  8. Yadkin

    Yadkin Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2013
    Location:
    Yadkin Valley, NC
    Well that didn't work out too well. Engine ran noticeably rougher and the IRM count was 27 after less than ten miles. Back to the MSD wires.
     
  9. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    There is less EMI suppression with the Motorcraft wires.
     
  10. Yadkin

    Yadkin Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2013
    Location:
    Yadkin Valley, NC
    Last night I went through the Pertronix electrical tests, found and repaired two problems.

    The resistance between the distributor base plate and battery ground was about 3 Ohms, and they recommend a maximum of 0.2. I traced it to the battery cable. It wasn't the connectors but the actual cable itself. So I purchased a new $8 cable.

    The voltage at the coil under load was just over 8 volts, and Pertronix likes at least 10. In this era of Ford cars, there are two wires from the ignition switch to the engine bay. One powers the coil through a resistor wire to maintain about 6 volts. The other goes to the starter solenoid and gives the coil the full battery voltage while cranking. I had simply used the second wire to power the coil. It turns out that it is a smaller gauge, I had to add on some length, and it had a good amount of resistance itself. So I ran a new 12 gauge wire from the switch directly to the coil, and now I get 10.4 volts.

    This required a new tune. The engine ran better but still not perfect. I tried using a second strike setting on the pertronix box but that made it worse.

    One problem that has started to develop, so must be related, is that the car bogs down once or twice after about the first mile or so. It just loses spark for a split second.

    I'm thinking that the problem may be because I don't have full 12 volts at the coil. The resistance is probably in the key switch. I'm thinking that the easiest way to get 12 volts is to use a relay, but I don't like the idea of having a fuse or relay in that circuit. If I have time tomorrow I'll power the coil from the battery and take a test drive.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
  11. Yadkin

    Yadkin Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2013
    Location:
    Yadkin Valley, NC
    I powered the coil directly off the battery and no improvement.
     
  12. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    With the wiring improvements, you may need to do a Wizard reset to base tune and re-input your current user settings. What plug wires are you using? The 40 Ohm per foot Super Conductor wires will give better secondary wiring interference suppression.
     
  13. Yadkin

    Yadkin Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2013
    Location:
    Yadkin Valley, NC
    I've noticed with the new dash controller I have to do a reset whenever I make a wiring change. I'm not sure why, but it seems to rest to its base values when I've made wiring changes.

    I've gone back to the MSD wires 500 ohms/ ft. I'll consider your advice on the Super Conductors.
     
  14. Yadkin

    Yadkin Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2013
    Location:
    Yadkin Valley, NC
    I just ordered MSD 31193. I hope this works.
     
  15. Yadkin

    Yadkin Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2013
    Location:
    Yadkin Valley, NC
    Another thing, I'm using the Pertronix Second Strike ignition set at zero, so basically it's doing nothing but giving me a tach signal. The distributor has an Ignitor II ignition in it. Can I just use that as a tach signal and get rid of the ignition box?
     
  16. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    Those resets to default after wiring changes are likely caused by some type of interference from or in the wiring. The lower resistance 40-Ohm per foot Super Conductor wires may make the needed difference.

    I'm not overly familiar with Pertronix, but you should be able to use a FAST RPM module to supply a tach signal from the negative side of coil with the Second Strike removed. The RPM module doesn't supply the cleanest signal, but may work.

    A MSD or FAST CD may work with the Pertronix distributor. The CD box would then feed the coil primary terminals independently using the distributor signal, and would also supply a clean RPM signal for the FAST EZ EFI ECU.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2017
  17. Yadkin

    Yadkin Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2013
    Location:
    Yadkin Valley, NC
    I've already has a FAST CD box and matching coil as part of this build. I replaced it with the Pertronix box to eliminate that as a possible cause of my problem. Now my ignition electronics are all Pertronix.

    The fact that when I turn on the second strike capability, hence doubling the high energy pulses going through the plug wires, the engine performs worse, points to the plug wires themselves being the problem.
     
  18. gtsman

    gtsman Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2014
    If you really think your having EMI problems with your spark plug wires, you my have to step up to Magnacor http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/main.htm
    They cost more, but they're one of the best at stopping EMI. That's why Brain ( turbonova ) sells then on his web site.
     
  19. A A

    A A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2014
    The Second Strike unit also uses a different strategy as noted by the coil connections. This may or may not be a problem. You'll know after the new plug wires are installed.
     
  20. Yadkin

    Yadkin Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2013
    Location:
    Yadkin Valley, NC
    My understanding of the Pertronix set up (Ignitor II with Flamethrower II) is that it produces a long inductive spark. The Second Strike gives a capacitive discharge (short) spark.
     

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