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Should adaptive learning come on at Idle? EZ-EFI 2.0

Discussion in 'FAST Support Forum' started by killswitch, Jan 2, 2019.

  1. killswitch

    killswitch New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Just want to know if the adaptive learning feature should activate at idle before the car has been driven. I am mocking up the build and want to be sure the ez-efi system is working properly before I modify (tailor) the wiring harness to the car. The system seems to be erratic and sometimes unstable, but if I play around enough with the settings I can get it pretty happy. two things though, I have never seen the learning light come on and the handheld unit keeps losing coms with ECU especially when the engine is not running but tends to reboot once or twice when trying to get to the live data screen when running.
     
  2. killswitch

    killswitch New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Thank you for quick reply, I have been reading about capacitors that should be installed. Do you have any recommendations?
    All main power leads go directly to battery. Pertonics Digital HP and ECU
    50ohms per foot MSD plug wires
    I will try to separate the soft power leads to two different switches if you think that will help?
    Anything else I can do? I'm not sure what else could be wrong.
     
  3. killswitch

    killswitch New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Great advise and thank you.
    I will reorganize the wiring and separate primary from secondary and from EFI harness.
    May I ask what issues the pertronix ignition box cause? In your option this is a "must change" part to MSD? Is the MSD digital 6AL the best choice (don't want buy a third box if not)?
    How do I find out what frequency range capacitor I need for pink wire. Is there a cap you can recommend that most use?
     
  4. killswitch

    killswitch New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    I hooked up a spare MSD 6 box I had, moved all primary wires away from secondary, there were not really all that close and crossed at a 90. Moved pink wire to it's own separate switch wired to battery, only wire close to secondary wires is fan switch but it also crosses at a 90. Check the locked timing and looks rock solid (I would say the Pertronix was a tad jumpy but not that bad.) Connected the handheld w/o extension cable. Still no learning light.

    almost impossible to set IAC in the window but I can get IAC around 30 at idle but it still wonders around. Guessing its due to 8 throttle blades? Maybe learning at idle wont work if IAC numbers are off?
    IDK, the FAST tech blew me off with "Well you really need to drive it for the learning to start" but I can't do that until the car is finished. If that is the case, so be it but I'd really like to get this right before the body goes on.

    I guess the only thing to do is the capacitor. I will try and find one at a radio shack and install it.

    If the capacitor doesn't resolve it what else can I do?

    Specs:
    EZ-EFI firmware version 121
    351W with 8 stack Individual TB's (Flow synced at idle)
    8 - 45Lbs injectors
    Fuel pressure 43
    O2 Cor 08-10 sometime lower or higher.
    Idle vacuum 15
    Idle set 1000
    CTS reading 185
     
  5. killswitch

    killswitch New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    The MSD 6AL if off my engine run stand so I will need to replace it. Will the MSD Digital 6AL work?
    Comp Cam Hydro roller 230/236 @0.050
    Intake is a Speedmaster 8 Stack with 45lbs injectors
    10.5:1 compression
    O2 in header collector and no leaks
    I will try a 3x wizard reset and get idle down to 750 and see what happens. Maybe the 1000 rpm idle was the issue the whole time.

    Thank you again for the helpful advise!
     
  6. fabr

    fabr Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2017
    He posted he has 15" at idle. Why would he need a sportsman?
     
  7. fabr

    fabr Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2017
    I'll bet he still has plenty at 700-750 as well. Why not wait till he lowers idle before suggesting he needs to spend more money for an upgrade till he sees what vac at a lower idle he has? For that matter,he needs to get the other gremlins fixed before he even considers any upgrade.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
  8. killswitch

    killswitch New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Thanks guys and yes, the 15" was at 1000 rpm, plus this is a 5 spd manual. I will lower the RPM today and measure the vacuum then.
    Nowhere on their website does it warn against EZ-EFI in manual trans application. Why does AL not work well with a manual trans?
     
  9. killswitch

    killswitch New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
  10. killswitch

    killswitch New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    13" or MAP at 050 750RPM no learning still. I know this is a manual trans but ECU can't know what the trans is at idle when in neutral.

    Could ECU need firmware update?
    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

  11. gremlinmt

    gremlinmt Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2013
    Assuming you changed the idle target to 750, you'll still need to close the throttle blades a bit so the IAC number is closer to 20. Do an IAC calibration and get it in the green zone.
     
  12. killswitch

    killswitch New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    I think I am having issue with IAC not metering as it should. I tried closing all 8 blades and still am having issue keeping at 750. I have a FAST remote IAC from another build. I am rigging now to test.
    Thank you all for this great input.
     
  13. killswitch

    killswitch New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    TPS adjustment is at the end, but TPS calibration should tell ecu that .7 is at idle or am I mistaken?
    What adjustment can be made for idle duty cycle fuel lbs p/hour?
    I've been playing with idle A/F, idles best at 13.2.
    Handheld not resetting as much or not at all really when engine is running. Seams to reset a few times when switch between screens with engine off.
     
  14. Pfingstl

    Pfingstl Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2016
    Location:
    Denmark
    Happy new year to all

    I can just confirm that the capacitor fixed my rebooting problem and I had to RMA my ECU because of no learning.

    Since then the system runs great
     
    A A likes this.
  15. killswitch

    killswitch New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    My TPS is .7 at idle and 4.6 at full throttle, TPS calibration should tell ECU what is what at idle and full throttle I'm guessing.
    This is not a FAST throttle body set up, it is an 8 stack individual runner setup with Bosch 43lbs injectors.
    I went through another throttle blade adjustment procedure then flow matched all 8 stacks. Double checked for vacuum leaks.
    Nothing changed same reading and still no learning.

    13.2 is fat for idle but this engine likes it best. I found that lying to the ecu results in a very clean and smooth (for this cam - Comp Cam 35-425-8 Hydro roller 230/236 @ 0.050 110* LSA)
    Set CID to 400 (Actually a Ford 351W)
    Injector Lbs to 50 lbs ( actually 43LBS)
    Idle Target AF to 13.2

    I called FAST tech support, now they want me to send in the ECU and handheld for repair. I asked the tech why there ais no warning on their website about EZ-EFI and a manual trans. He said he has been begging them to do something about it. Not everyone joins this forum to research. You should get enough information from the manufactures site not to make such an expensive mistake. The tech advised to upgrade to sportsman and quoted me $270 to exchange EZ-EFI and handheld for XFI sportsman. I'm going to check with A-tech support and see what my wholesale price is, but even at $270 I think I am eliminating twice that in headaches.

    Thanks to all for the great advice and knowledge!
     
    A A likes this.
  16. killswitch

    killswitch New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Yeah, my crystal ball saw frustration on the horizon with this EZ-EFI ECU. I just placed the order and packing up the ECU today. That cam you have in the 406 is what we have in the 351W ( http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=897&sb=2 ) and pulling 13" at 750rpm. What heads and compression? How is the power and street manners?
     
  17. killswitch

    killswitch New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Sounds like an awesome engine. The 351W has Edelbrock RPM heads untouched, 10:1 so I'm guessing at maybe 425-435HP and hope to get streetable manners as does yours. It's a super light car (AC Cobra kit car), so it should be pretty interesting.
    I stole the sportsman ECU from my 340 Dart project and was able to get it up and running. Now I need to figure out how to tune the fuel and spark tables. I will play with tuning here and there but I need to get to tailoring the wiring harness and building out the dash cluster and wiring. Been doing a lot of reading on this forum on tuning.
    One question I have is the table parameters. How would one shorten the RPM and Load% scales. One post said to hoover until hand icon and click. That results in a popup to change only the axis value.
     
  18. killswitch

    killswitch New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Adding - It appears to idle at around 40% load so any reason I should keep any of the scale below that range or if red line is 5800-6000 rpm to keep anything above 6000rpm?
     

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